Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 28th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

We'll continue to our next witness, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Gebremariam, what recommendations should the committee submit to the House regarding the situation in Tigray?

[Kidane Gebremariam, President and Social Worker, Security and Justice for Tigrayans Canada]

Before I answer your question, I really want to respond to one thing. Is that okay?

I think there is some kind of blaming the victim going on in front of this committee. The people of Tigray are facing unprecedented atrocities. Who are the terrorists? Is it the government, which is really blocking basic services and putting its own regime under siege? To me, this is state terrorism. This is a government that invited a foreign force to attack its own people, and that is really serious for me. I see that the government or the prime minister is really.... I've never seen such a prime minister, who invites a foreign force to kill his own people and to starve his own people.

Also, I just want to mention that this entire military command is now stationed in Asmara, not in Addis Ababa. In that case, who is leading and who is ruling? It's President Isaias Afwerki.

Having said that, what I'm proposing for this committee is that we are appealing to you, to Canada, to use all the leverage at your disposal to pressure the Ethiopian government to accept a cessation of hostilities immediately.

The second thing is, we appeal to Canada to use its leverage to pressure the Eritrean government to withdraw its forces from Tigray immediately, without which peace is not possible.

Canada has moral and legal obligations to pressure the Eritrean government to allow unfettered humanitarian access to Tigray, because people are dying as we speak. People are dying of starvation. People are dying from drone strikes. People are being taken to concentration camps in unknown locations. That's what the reality is.

There was one other thing that I would like to respond to also, and it is that they were talking about recommending that Canada send a delegate to visit, but International Human Rights Commission experts are not allowed to enter Tigray, so the last recommendation I'm making is, please, Canada, along with the international community, sanction arms embargos to Ethiopia and Eritrea.

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Do I have any speaking time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have 45 seconds.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Kapila, you said that Canada is a signatory to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. What are Canada's obligations as a signatory to this convention when there is genocide or a risk of genocide in progress?

Mr. Kapila, my question is for you.

[Dr. Mukesh Kapila]

I'm sorry. I think your question was, what are the obligations when genocide is suspected? Is that correct?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, exactly. What are the obligations of signatories, like Canada, to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Could we have just a sentence or two, please?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, due to the interpretation, I have a minute.

[Dr. Mukesh Kapila]

The convention is very clear, in that if a genocide is suspected, a member state that is part of the convention has to do everything it can to stop it. The question, of course, is how and why? That's why it's an enormous debate. Also, it is why states are reluctant to declare genocide. It is simply because by declaring that, they are going to be under an obligation they cannot fulfill, so we have a conundrum here.

This is why practical measures are needed that are not fixated on the word “genocide” alone but are concerned about crimes against humanity, about humanity generally, and those other practical measures that will reduce some of the ways in which the Ethiopian and Eritrean parties are conducting this warfare on Tigray.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you, Dr. Kapila.

Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would like to thank our witnesses again for being here.

As I think everybody in this room has expressed, what we want to see is a cessation of the loss of life and the stopping of attacks on the Tigrayan people, the stopping of the violence against the Tigrayan people.

Just last week, the Secretary-General of the United Nations spoke about two things that were vital for that to happen. The first is that there must be an “immediate withdrawal and disengagement of Eritrean armed forces from Ethiopia.” He added that civilians “are paying a horrific price” across the region, so the second is that all parties “must allow and facilitate the rapid and unimpeded passage of humanitarian relief for all civilians in need.” Those are the two things the Secretary-General identified as the primary things.

I know you've had an opportunity to talk a bit with us about other things Canada can do.

I'll ask this to all three of you, if you wouldn't mind: Do you agree that these are the things that are most urgently required?

Perhaps I could start with you, Mr. Gebremariam.

[Kidane Gebremariam]

I think the important thing for Canada to do is to pressure the Government of Eritrea to agree to an immediate cessation of hostility.

The second thing is that people need access to humanitarian aid, because they are dying of starvation. It is really unfortunate. The international community said, “Never again,” but it is happening again and again. The people of Tigray are waiting to have a very concrete kind of action to stop the war, so they can have access to life-saving basic services, their banking services, telephone and everything. Now we don't have any access to our brothers and sisters over there. My brother was killed, and I did not have access to know how and when he was killed. The only thing I heard was that he was killed and that he was buried after one week. Why? People were not allowed to bury him.

What do we really need to quell this genocide? We see that people are really starving over this. Women and 17-year-old girls are being raped. They are doing it right now. In Shire right now, a lot of women are being raped over there. More than 300 people have been taken to an unknown location, so I really think the world must act now, not later.

Thank you.

[Feven Mulugeta]

I would agree that the removal of Eritrean troops is needed immediately and, in addition to that, the removal of the Amhara militia and the Ethiopian troops who have committed these atrocities.

Then also, as you mentioned, there is the unfettered humanitarian access piece. Hunger kills exponentially. The starvation.... There are the images that we're seeing of the malnourished children that UNICEF sent; over 100,000 children are at imminent risk of dying from malnutrition. The UN has said numerous times that over 5.6 million people are in imminent risk of famine, so we need Canada to use all the tools it has to sanction Ethiopia, to use all the leverage it has to pressure it to provide unfettered humanitarian access.

[Dr. Abel Giday Kebedom]

I'll definitely underline that unfettered humanitarian access should be allowed, not tomorrow, not the day after tomorrow, but now. As we speak, people are dying. If you have seen it on Twitter, there were children gasping due to lack of oxygen, so they can't wait. The children of Tigray can't wait. The women of Tigray can't wait.

As a human being, I will say the things that are happening in Tigray could have very bad repercussions worldwide, so I believe, for the sake of humanity, that the war has to stop. It has to end as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

That will be the final word.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a proposed motion.

I understand that as employees of the House of Commons, we as MPs have access to employee assistance program counselling services. As a committee, we have the ability to provide those services to witnesses of a particular study on a one-time basis. I would move that we allow witnesses of this study to access those counselling services available through the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you for putting that to the floor.

For expediency, I would ask that we have unanimous consent around that.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

That's great.

All witnesses here have access to the services that Ms. Vandenbeld just outlined. Our clerk will be in direct contact with all witnesses here. I've heard that they're very good. Please don't hesitate. Do avail yourselves of them; it takes a lot of courage to do so. At the worst, it can be to do nothing; at the best, it can be helpful. Please do avail yourselves of this free service.

We've now reached our limit of time.

I want to sincerely thank all the witnesses for being here. I know it's extremely difficult to share your personal experiences and the experiences of your family, loved ones and friends. Please know that you have been heard, and everything you have said is extremely important. It takes a lot of strength and courage to come here today and do what you've done. We recognize that. We laud you for what you're doing. Please stay in contact with us and be in touch.

We have to unfortunately continue with our business. This place works like clockwork. It doesn't stop for us. We must continue and move ahead.

We will go into a closed session. We have about five minutes to switch to that.

For those online, I ask you to quickly move into the closed session.

I want to sincerely thank the witnesses for coming in today, taking the time and participating by Zoom.

The meeting is suspended.

[Proceedings continue in camera]