Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 10th, 2023

[Lhadon Tethong]

I think it's in Canada's national interest. It's not just about protecting us. I think if Canada protects people in our communities better from the threat that we know the Chinese government is posing, then I think in the community—where all of the information resides about what the Chinese government is doing to undermine our elections and whatnot—that information will come out more readily. I don't think right now people would feel very protected coming forward with any information like that.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

We will continue to a final round of two and a half minutes each, starting with Mr. Battiste.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony. I'm a Mi'kmaq person from a Mi'kmaq community. My aunt went to a residential school. I had cousins who went to residential schools. To hear this testimony and to hear the thoughts around killing the Tibetan in the child, it sounds eerily similar to what the Canadian experience was for first nations in residential schools. While there are some differences, to me, it is very horrifying and sickening to know that governments in this age can be doing things like this.

I'm really glad to be able to hear.... We're doing a study on this, and we're bringing this to light, but what more can we do as the Canadian government and as first nations across Canada who have gone through this process and who would not want to see any other nation or any other religion have to go through what we went through for generations? What more can we do?

[Dr. Gyal Lo]

Thanks very much, again.

I came here to fight for the case of Tibet in China now. There are many Tibetans. There are my former students, colleagues and old friends. All of those communities that I visited.... I have to raise the alarm in the international community. My responsibility is to my people inside of Tibet.

Please stand up and support us to increase the pressure on China to at least stop or slow down what they are doing to our four- to six-year-old kids now.

[Chemi Lhamo]

One thing I would also really appreciate, as a young Tibetan Canadian who has been brought up in displaced areas all around the world, is meaningful connections with anyone who is listening. That's first nation, Métis and Inuit communities that come from that generation and intergenerational trauma.

We are currently going through it, and we need to find ways to find safe spaces and braver spaces to come together and heal, even though that is a long process. We need to continue to be in solidarity with each other to raise the alarm, as Dr. Gyal has said.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Does anyone online want to comment as well?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Give very brief comments.

[Lhadon Tethong]

Yes.

We have so much to learn from the Tibetan side. I have found strength and guidance from listening to the stories from the survivors of the residential schools in Canada, because there is confusion.

If you send your kid to a school, are you choosing that school? When you've lived under the system of colonization and repression for so long, is it suddenly our fault that we're sending kids to these schools when there is really no choice?

In our Tibetan community, inside and outside of Tibet, we have a lot to learn. I would appreciate opportunities that Canada could facilitate—the Government of Canada, perhaps—for us to bring up our level of knowledge in our own community about the threat we face, because we are in it. It's very hard to see, on some level, where this will end up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

We will continue to our next round.

Mr. Aboultaif, you have two and a half minutes.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

I have a quick question. I was going to mention the 17-point agreement and point number nine, which speaks about the education system. It's written on the wall what China intends, from point number nine of the 17-point agreement.

My question is on the role that Canada can play. In the October vote, we were 18 votes away. Can Canada work with the Five Eyes and with our allies to make sure that in the next round, we can get to that point so that, as an international community that cares about human rights, this situation achieves similar results as the Uighur situation that also exists in China?

[Dr. Sophie Richardson]

I can't encourage you strongly enough to pursue that strategy, to find all of the allies you possibly can. It was an unusual group that signed on in October, and I think more could be gained from having more diverse supporters. I think it takes a certain diplomatic initiative at the highest level, again, to match Xi Jinping's ambition and to push back against that.

It is doable, but I also think that democracies need to be deciding not just what to do with the Human Rights Council sessions in March, June and September of this year. They need to be thinking about what they should be doing five years from now and 10 years from now. They should be thinking now about getting other governments in Asia to run for the Human Rights Council so that China might not be re-elected. It came close to losing the last time it ran, and I think with some concerted diplomatic initiative, you could set that as a goal and achieve it.

Part of what the October vote showed was that the Chinese government is in fact within reach of international scrutiny at key human rights bodies, but it takes discipline, resources and ambition. I would project a decade out and work backwards on everything from colonial boarding schools in Tibet to the Uighurs to many others issues including Chinese human rights defenders and Hong Kong and transnational repression. There's room for all of this at the UN, and I think you would find that with Canadian leadership, you would have quite a few other governments coming along to support you.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

This is just a final thought: I think we would appreciate a long-term strategy. I know time is not with us, but time is also not with China. I think if we start putting in proper efforts, we can achieve some good results out of this and make sure we put the rights where the rights belong.

I know the time is short, but if you can brief us on a long-term strategy that can be adapted or utilized by any current or future Canadian government, that would be great. Thank you.

[Dr. Sophie Richardson]

I would support democracies running for Human Rights Council membership. I would leave no seat or committee uncontested. I would leave no review unattended. What else? I think there should be strong support given to independent civil society groups, including those based in Canada, to participate in reviews of the Chinese government on multiple different levels. Last but not least, I would love to see governments push for the establishment of a special rapporteur on China specifically, as we have seen in other countries in human rights crisis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you, Mr. Aboultaif.

Now, given that both Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and Ms. McPherson went over time, we're going to reduce this, unfortunately, to just one question each within a minute and a half.

Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe, please proceed.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're hearing more and more that China may move on Taiwan. Actually, it's no longer a question of if it's going to happen, it's a question of when.

If China were to move on Taiwan, what would that mean for the people of Tibet?

Ms. Tethong, could you tell me a little more about that?

[Lhadon Tethong]

I think that for every Tibetan, what seems impossible to others is, of course, totally clear and possible to us. The fall of Hong Kong was not something we thought was impossible, and now with Taiwan, yes, all Tibetans are concerned.

I also think we see in Taiwan what exists there: the people and the spirit. There's actually a lot that should be done to shore up Hong Kong support. This for Tibetans, I think, is key, because we didn't have it when we lost our nation. Maybe we should have worked harder to secure it, but it was a different time.

I just think the key here is self-determination and having the Canadian government and others support the self-determination of the people. It's clear that what the Taiwanese want, what Hong Kongers want and what Tibetans and Uighurs also want matters.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

If I may, I'm going to ask one last question, Mr. Chair.

What would be the direct impact on Tibetans if China were to move on Taiwan?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Perhaps someone would like to comment on that very briefly.

[Lhadon Tethong]

Maybe Dr. Gyal Lo would.

[Dr. Gyal Lo]

I think it's very clear that they will formally make further harmful policies and then ultimately eradicate the Tibetan identity.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Lo.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, if folks on the call would like to talk about that, I'm happy to cede my time to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Would anybody like to continue their thoughts on that specific question?