Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 10th, 2023

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

Ms. Ravon, I'll turn next to you. You mentioned difficulties and challenges in many countries around the world. I wanted to hear more about the work your organization does in some of these countries, projects that you think stand out that need to be amplified. I'd like to give you a moment to talk about some of those programs, if you don't mind.

[Lauren Ravon]

Thanks for the opportunity.

Maybe, if you don't mind, I would start, also, by following up on what Ketty just said on human rights defenders. There are three things I want to add. One is this issue of having to have left the country. That's a major barrier and something we have seen with activists we have worked with. Many, within a 24-hour crisis, won't have a UNHCR referral to be applying for asylum, so changing that is crucial.

The second one is around nurturing civil society in exile in Canada through supports. We know that WAGE and other government departments have built up more support for the women's movement in Canada over the years, and this is fantastic. However, looking at exiled activists as part of an ecosystem of civil society in Canada is crucial, and it connects the dots between local civil-society strengthening and our international development assistance.

Then a third point I would say on that relates more to Global Affairs and Global Affairs funding. At Oxfam, we support women's rights organizations and feminist movements in many countries around the world, in part through programs like the women's voice and leadership program but also in areas like gender-based violence and sexual and reproductive rights in challenging countries from Yemen to Pakistan to Central America.

One gap we have identified that I want to mention is the difficulty of funding activists in exile, so not only those who make it to Canada but, if you think of the context, for example, of Afghanistan, activists or Afghan politicians who may have fled the border into neighbouring countries, whether it's Pakistan or elsewhere. It's very hard to support those activists in exile through Global Affairs programs that are intended to build up human rights programs and women's rights organizations because of that fluidity of having gone elsewhere. However, we know that those are the voices that keep hope alive for many people who are back in the country and who keep up resistance when it's unsafe to be in the country. These are the women and the activists who usually will then return to their country and be key leaders in democratic movements.

I just want to put that on the table.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu.

We're going to continue to our next round of five minutes with Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Witnesses, keep your earpieces in if you need them.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to everyone for being here with us today for this important study.

You all talked a great deal about Yemen in your opening remarks. We know that an indirect war between Iran and Saudi Arabia is being fought on its territory.

Ms. Pelletier‑Marcotte, I'm going to ask you a two-part question.

Canada is currently sending humanitarian aid to Yemen, but I think we can all agree that it's not enough. It's still far below what the United Nations (UN) is asking for, and that's 0.7% of the gross domestic product (GDP), or the average among Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries, which is 0.42% of GDP. We're contributing even less than the Harper government was.

That said, we are sending some humanitarian aid to Yemen, and I'd like to know if the Canadian government is sending enough.

If so, what action should be supported or not supported in Yemen?

[Léa Pelletier-Marcotte, Policy Analyst, Oxfam-Québec]

Thank you very much for the question. I'll try to answer it as best I can.

The Yemen issue is indeed quite complex. It's important to know that it's not only about funding humanitarian aid to Yemen, even if it's not necessarily sufficient. The aid must be accompanied by meaningful policy and political leadership. Many of us have said so here. That will take other measures, in particular to avoid fuelling the current conflict in Yemen. It's being fuelled by the sale of arms to some of the countries involved in it, among other things. So that has to stop.

It's also going to take a feminist foreign policy—not necessarily a feminist international aid policy—which would support women's rights organizations in a comprehensive way and strengthen their leadership in peace processes.

That includes ensuring that the policies under which women work are respectful of them and promoting policies and a judicial system that build the country's confidence.

So it's not just a question of funding. It's also about our approach, our leadership and the way we use our voice and our influence, at the UN, for example, to do something more than give money. It's also a question of international trade and foreign policy.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Isn't it a little counterproductive to fund humanitarian aid organizations on the one hand, and sell arms to Saudi Arabia on the other?

It doesn't really make sense, does it?

[Léa Pelletier-Marcotte]

Yes, it's important that measures be consistent.

It's a leadership issue. In the past, some countries have made decisions and stopped sending arms to countries participating indirectly in the Yemen conflict.

We're still waiting for Canada to show similar leadership on this issue.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I believe Oxfam‑Quebec is active on the ground in Yemen. Therefore, you have experience on the ground.

Can you explain to the committee how it's going for women right now?

What's the situation in Yemen as far as women's rights go?

[Léa Pelletier-Marcotte]

Yes, we are on the ground.

Generally speaking, Oxfam is working with local partners. We never arrive somewhere in our big shoes telling people how they should do things. We work with the partners.

Oxfam‑Quebec supports Oxfam projects with local partners in Yemen, particularly with respect to sanitation services and access to safe drinking water. We're striving to provide better access to water and reinforce hygiene measures.

The Yemen conflict is very complex, and I won't go into detail. Nevertheless, I can say that women face many challenges, especially those working in the organizations we deal with. Female aid workers and female workers in our member organizations are somewhat limited in their ability to act, particularly because of the policy that women must be accompanied by a mahram, which means guard, as they move around.

We've seen that leadership from Canada and donor countries can bring about change. That policy has been relaxed. It's more open and, on certain days, women can walk around unaccompanied in some directorates. However, things remain limited. Still, we've seen that things can change.

It's also important to remember that women have been politically engaged, politically active for a long time. Since the conflict, we've really seen a decline in terms of that engagement. That's why it's important to enforce the UN resolution “Women,Peace and Security” to ensure that women are fully included in peace process negotiations. Right now, they are excluded. Leadership is needed to make sure they're part of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Is my time already up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Unfortunately, it is.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe and Ms. Pelletier‑Marcotte.

We will continue with Ms. McPherson for five minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here with us and for sharing your expertise with us.

I am glad that my colleague Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe asked about the arms being sent to Saudi Arabia. I think that's the exact indication of why we need a written-down, public, feminist foreign policy. There was 118 million dollars' worth of armoured vehicles sent to Saudi Arabia in January alone. It is the opposite of action on a feminist foreign policy.

One of the things I want to make very clear is that we often hear, with regard to international development, that there needs to be more support from Canadians. I can tell you that there is huge support across Canada to stop sending arms to Saudi Arabia, yet the Canadian government doesn't act on it. That is a big issue for me, so you can probably hear me being quite frustrated in my language.

Ms. Nivyabandi, you talked a bit about how Canada cannot be credible unless we apply human rights lenses equitably across the world. We can't pick and choose.

Could you talk about some of the places where you have seen that Canada has not done that? Where have we not stood up for human rights when we should have?

[Ketty Nivyabandi]

Yes. I think there's a degree of variation. There are instances where we do speak up on human rights, but perhaps not with the vigour that is needed.

I would mention countries.... Even as recently as Peru, which just experienced a serious crisis. Here, I would highlight, sometimes, the conflict between trade interests and human rights. I think that's a very real conflict that needs to be resolved in terms of foreign policy. We need to be clear about what supersedes what—whether human rights actually supersede trade interests—and follow through.

Definitely in Latin America there were a number of cases. There was Peru, and also Colombia and elsewhere. Another example would be the situation of women in Palestine, for instance, which we don't hear about sufficiently because of Canada's position in relation to Israel. You can uphold the rights of both Israeli women and Palestinian women. It is very much possible and that's the lens that needs to be used across the board.

I'm a little bit concerned about the rapprochement with India and with Modi's government as well. I think we need to be very mindful of what is happening in India and ensure that our relationships do not, again, hinder our ability to speak up on human rights globally.

Egypt is another case that needs very strong and sustained positions.

As much as Canada has to manoeuvre its relationship with these countries in order to be a credible partner and sometimes a trade partner, it will only benefit Canada to be consistent across the board on its policies on human rights. That's the beauty of diplomacy. There's a way of being able to do both—to uphold trade interests while also prioritizing human rights across the board.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you for raising that issue.

For me, it's always been a little bit like you can't have one without the other. Ultimately, those trade relationships will fail if we don't have good diplomacy and if we don't have good development relationships with other countries. I've framed it sometimes as the dessert you get when you actually do the hard work of development, human rights support and diplomacy.

Ms. Ravon, I have a question for you as well.

You talked about the need for Canada to invest more in humanitarian aid. You won't be surprised to hear me say that I agree. Our ODA is woefully low in Canada. It's embarrassing, when I am in the international sphere, to have to say that we are still at 0.3% for ODA.

I also would like you to talk a little bit about how that money should be spent. It's not just increasing the amount of money. It's ensuring that it is being done properly and that it is going to the right organizations. Could you share your thoughts on that?

[Lauren Ravon]

Thank you for the question.

There are a couple of things.

One is that the way we spend our money is just as important as how much we spend. The way we spend money needs to be in line with the feminist international assistance policy. We can't support feminist programming in ways that are very rigid, that transfer risk onto local partners, that are compliance-obsessed or that are inflexible.

There is a lot that can be done with the current budget to move our international aid funding to ways that are more flexible and that not only allow organizations to adapt to changing contexts, but enable organizations to adapt from long-term development programs to emergency response when there are humanitarian disasters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

We're going to continue now for quick four-minute rounds.

We'll have Ms. Vandenbeld, please, for four minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I really want to thank our witnesses. I think there's a lot of information here that we can put into our recommendations, largely because of your direct connections with human rights defenders and women human rights activists.

I was very interested, Ms. Nivyabandi, when you talked about the sophisticated transnational anti-feminist narratives. I do believe, Ms. Ravon, that you mentioned that the backlash against women's rights is interconnected. We know that this is happening globally and that means Canada's not immune.

I'd like to direct this question first to Ms. Nivyabandi.

You spoke in your remarks about some of the needs that human rights defenders have once they get here. You touched on the need for protection and the threats that they continue to face once they're here. I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit on that, and then I'll ask Ms. Ravon to comment as well.

[Ketty Nivyabandi]

Yes, very quickly, I think there is work to be done to study further the rise of anti-rights, anti-gender and anti-feminist narratives. They are indeed transnational. They are interconnected. Just yesterday, I came back from Halifax and a round table with other scholars where they are actually studying exactly what this trend looks like. They are moving from country to country. It's more of networks that are rising. It's a mix of both a denial of the human rights framework and an emphasis on individual rights that we're seeing rising primarily in Europe but also in North America and various other countries as well.

One of the most effective ways for them to spread is through digital platforms and social media in particular. This is why the movement is becoming transnational. One of the major threats for defenders who are here in Canada comes through these platforms. The levels of online violence that human rights defenders in Canada are facing, as I said, are alarming. They receive threats, but beyond the online piece, they also receive physical threats. Some of them, particularly those from China, have reported receiving calls, being followed, and overt surveillance from their governments and actors that are close to their governments and who have a presence here on Canadian soil.

I would really like to highlight the need to better support women from online violence. We have just seen that the Governor General herself receives these levels of violence. Women journalists in particular are at risk here in Canada, as are a variety of other women human rights defenders.

There's an emboldening of the anti-gender, anti-feminist and anti-rights movements. It is spreading. It is organized. It is sophisticated. It is resourced. It needs an adequate response from the Canadian government. I'm quite concerned about where we're going to be in five years if we don't take concrete action today.

I'll stop here and give Lauren an opportunity to respond as well.

[Lauren Ravon]

Thanks, Ketty.

I totally agree. I think we need to be aware that the attacks against the most marginalized communities and human rights defenders are usually a canary in the coal mine that indicates a broader crackdown on democratic space and on civic space.

Right now, for example, there are the attacks on trans communities, LGBTQ organizing and the organizing of trans women in particular. The huge attacks that we see on them is a sign of what's to come in terms of broader attacks on women's rights, on human rights and on civic space. Seeing these as isolated incidents is dangerous, not only for their rights but also for the health of our democracies.

I just want to say, this week alone around International Women's Day, we've seen huge attacks, tens of thousands of people attacking one of our Oxfam Canada board members, an incredible trans woman activist. This is a sign that is incredibly concerning because it's also happening here in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

We're going to continue to the next round for four minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Viersen, please.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. This is an important topic to be discussing.

One of the witnesses was talking about Yemen. I'm wondering, given that it's not one of the countries listed in this study, how that's connected to either Iran or Saudi Arabia. I'm sure it is. I'm just wondering how they—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.