Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 21st, 2023

[Tenzin Rabgyal]

[Witness spoke in Tibetan, interpreted as follows:]

His Holiness the 10th Panchen Rinpoche is very important to many millions of Buddhist followers across Tibet and the Himalayan region. He serves as the root guru of many Tibetans.

In regard to the importance of His Holiness the Panchen Rinpoche in relation to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, there's an analogy in our community of the sun and the moon, the sun being His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the moon being His Holiness the Panchen Lama. This is in accordance with the historical traditions of both the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama and the relationship between them as a father and a son or as a teacher and a student, and also, very importantly, their being involved in recognizing each other's reincarnations.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Arnold Viersen]

Thank you. That's all the time we have.

I'm now going to turn the floor over to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You are doing a fine job.

First, thank you to all witnesses for being with us today. Please forgive me if I mispronounce your names. I will try my best not to butcher them too badly.

All witnesses spoke at length about language. It is the foundation of Tibetan culture, alongside Buddhism, of course. As a Quebecker, I can certainly relate.

A sad precedent has already been set in Canada. We need only think of certain provinces that banned French-language education, like Manitoba and Ontario. We saw what happened as a result. When Manitoba joined the Canadian Confederation in 1870, it had as many francophones as anglophones. When French-language education was banned, it led to the outcome we know today. Unfortunately, you might take this as an indication of what ensues when education is imposed in another language, causing the assimilation of future generations.

I would like to hear what Mr. Dorjee has to say about that. We must look to the past to see what the future holds. Can Canada's past serve as an example of what could occur in Tibet?

Were my comments understood, Mr. Chair?

[Tenzin Dorjee]

I understood the gist of it. I missed a bit of the translation for the last part of the question, I think.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Arnold Viersen]

All right, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. I'll give you another minute to repeat your question.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay, I will begin again.

There have been cases in some Canadian provinces of francophones being assimilated after a ban on French-language education. Manitoba is one example.

Could what happened in Canada be used to illustrate what is likely to happen in Tibet with the current residential boarding schools?

[Tenzin Dorjee]

Thank you so much.

There are no words to stress the importance of language to an individual, to a society, to a people and to a family. Sometimes I think we make a mistake when we think of language as a tool for communication between two people or between two societies. Language is much more than a tool. It's the foundation for being a human being. In some ways, it is what distinguishes us from all the others as humans. Language is basically a way of thinking. It's a way of being in the world.

I was speaking just this morning with Dr. Gyal Lo about its importance, about what it means to lose a language. When somebody loses their language, it's not the same as losing many other things that are important to a person. The person who loses their mother tongue does not always gain another language at the same level. Usually, they gain half a language. Usually, they gain an incomplete language.

There are people who argue—there is literature that says so—that language basically determines thought. It determines our characteristics, our personalities. It influences who we are even at that level. When we talk about losing a language, it is not only a traumatic loss for an individual. It's not only a traumatic loss for a nation. It's not only a loss for society or for the relationships people have. We lose so much more that cannot be expressed enough through words. I think that is the future we are looking at if we fail, if the world fails to notice the alarming situation right now, if we fail to respond to this alarm that is the situation right now.

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you so much. I also believe language is the basis for forming thought. People with different mother tongues think differently, that much is clear. Many sociologists could attest to that.

I now have a question for Mr. Therchin, from the Canada-Tibet Committee.

Are you running a risk when you advocate for the Tibetan people while in another country, such as Canada? Bearing in mind everything we hear about Chinese interference, it is difficult for you to defend the interests of the Tibetan people? Do you feel safe in Canada when you stand up for Tibetans who are still in Tibet?

[Sherap Therchin]

Thank you for the question.

I think the threat is mainly applicable to Tibetans who still have families in Tibet, which is what the Chinese government often uses to coerce and self-censor Tibetans living in exile.

I didn't really have much fear when I joined Tibet advocacy and when I started speaking out in Canada for human rights in Tibet, but in recent times, after hearing more stories about Chinese influence and interference in Canada, and especially after hearing the stories of the existence of Chinese police stations in Canada, it really gave me a sense of fear about whether I am safe or not. This is something that I had never felt until two years ago.

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Your Holiness Abbot Rinpoché, if Canada and the parliamentarians of the House of Commons support your five recommendations, do you believe it will set an example for the rest of the world and that other democratic countries might follow suit and support the five recommendations?

[Tenzin Rabgyal]

[Witness spoke in Tibetan, interpreted as follows:]

Yes. Canada would be a leader should Parliament support the five appeals. We have big hopes for Canada leading that conversation for the millions of followers of His Holiness the Panchen Rinpoche, who is, namely, the second-highest Buddhist leader. This action by the Canadian government will support raising awareness about His Holiness the Panchen Rinpoche and help extremely. Not only will it help, but we have high hopes that Canada will take the lead on this.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Arnold Viersen]

Thank you.

We will now go to MP McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for coming and sharing this very difficult testimony.

Similar to my colleague from the Liberal Party—and I should say Eid Mubarak—I also see the commonalities with the residential system that we've seen in Canada. It seems like the same tools have been used to destroy the Tibetan people. Obviously, that is extremely upsetting.

His Holiness just spoke a bit about wanting Canada to take a leadership role in this. I would like to ask all three witnesses if they could comment on what other countries have said and what other countries have been doing with regard to support. I would just like to get a sense of where that situation is.

I know that when dealing with the PRC it's always best if we can work with our allies and if we can work with other like-minded countries as a bloc. It is an easier and more effective way of us doing that work. I'm just wondering where other countries are at and if there are any that have been leading on this and any that have been doing really good work that we can look to.

Perhaps I'll start with His Holiness and then maybe the other two witnesses would like to jump in.

[Tenzin Rabgyal]

[Witness spoke in Tibetan, interpreted as follows:]

In short, wherever I have been able to visit, whether it is in the United States, here in Canada, across Europe, in India or in London, where where I'm about to go, we've seen immense support in regard to His Holiness the Panchen Rinpoche's case.

[Sherap Therchin]

I would say there are certainly many other countries that have taken a strong position on the issue of not only the human rights but also the political issue of Tibet. I would cite the example of the bills that were passed in the U.S. in recent years. The Reciprocal Access to Tibet Act was passed in the U.S., and the Tibetan Policy and Support Act was passed in the U.S.

Currently, there's a bill on resolving the Sino-Tibetan conflict that is also under consideration for passing in the U.S. Congress.

More at the multilateral platform, I wanted to give an example that was probably from, I think, a little more than a year ago. Canada's UN ambassador, Bob Rae, mentioned, in response to a question asked by a Chinese representative there, that Canada actually recognizes the acknowledgement and the reconciliation of its history with indigenous peoples. This happens whenever there's any international attempt to point out China's treatment of its national people, whether it's Tibetans, Uyghurs or Mongolians. China often uses this as a counterattack to point out to western governments and to remind them of their own histories. This is where Bob Rae's answer, I thought, was a really good answer.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Dorjee, is there anything from you?

[Tenzin Dorjee]

I will just quickly add also that, two months ago, the United Nations released a very strong statement on this subject demanding that the Chinese government abolish the entire colonial system of boarding schools in Tibet. Just yesterday actually, the German government, from the foreign office, took a stand and made a very strong call to the Chinese government directly that it should close down the colonial boarding school system as well.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Therchin, how would you evaluate Canada's response to date? How do you feel that Canada is doing?

I know that you brought forward many recommendations that we can review, but how do you feel, to date, that Canada has done?

[Sherap Therchin]

I think the fact that we're having this meeting is a recognition of Canada's active interest on this issue. The fact that we recently had, on December 14, a unanimously passed motion supporting the resumption of Sino-Tibetan dialogue is a sign that Canada shows an increasing interest in resolving the human rights issues and in resolving the Sino-Tibetan conflict. I hope there will be more interest. I hope this is just a start.

[Tenzin Dorjee]

I also feel that the response from the Canadian Parliament, so far, has been very encouraging to us. The fact is that we are holding this hearing and that the Tibetan people are following this event. We can assure you that people inside Tibet, who really have no voice because they are being crushed by the Chinese government, are following what the Canadian government, the Parliament, and other governments around the world are taking action on.

I believe that the Canadian government could go much further than it is currently. In fact, it could take a much stronger stand, from the government side, to release a statement from the highest levels of government and to make strong calls to the Chinese government on closing down this institution, especially because of our own history here in North America. I think the colonial history of what happened in Canada places the Canadian government in, ironically, paradoxically, a very powerful position for taking action on this issue.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

I believe I'm almost out of time.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Arnold Viersen]

I was going to go around the room to canvass the members. Do you want to do another round?

I know we have an hour of committee business coming up after this. I would look for a motion perhaps to do one more round. Would that be the will of the committee?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair]

We'll do one more round of five minutes.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, on an administrative point, could Mr. Dorjee provide the committee the two statements he mentioned to Ms. McPherson? He mentioned a German government position and a UN report. I think that might be helpful for our analysis.