Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on April 28th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have 30 seconds.

[Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu]

In terms of how Nigerians view Canada and where you can act, yes, I would say you can act. Of course you will have the political side that will always have a negative view, but you will have the support of the people, on whose behalf you are doing this, so do what is in the interest of justice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's great. Thank you for your answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

We'll continue on with Mr. Angus for five minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

My colleague asked about mining interests. I am interested in the issue of oil, because Nigeria is a very large petroleum state and there have been many allegations over the years about environmental abuse and the dislocation of people.

A report was done in the last decade on how Royal Dutch Shell was arming gangs in Nigeria that were targeting, torturing and killing people living in the creeks and swamplands of the Niger delta. It was paying, according to one report, over $159,000 to a group linked to militia violence.

We've been talking about the religious fundamentalists, the terror gangs and the criminal gangs targeting the people. Ms. Uzoma-Iwuchukwu, what about the allegations that companies benefiting from the massive oil wealth are engaged in targeting and human rights abuses?

[Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu]

Yes, it's true that a lot of focus has been on the northeast and northwest because of Boko Haram, but the environmental rights violations by the big oil companies continue to go on, particularly in the Niger delta region of Nigeria. You have entire communities still dealing with issues of oil spillage, and the companies are not taking responsibility.

There have also been fewer media reports about the activities of the armed groups working in the creeks. Sometimes, the companies try to project that they're arming the groups to protect their facilities. You also have the Nigerian government adopting such an approach by paying one of the notorious commanders in the creeks. These are non-state actors who protect the oil facilities. It is a strategy that has created a problem. If the government can do it, the companies can argue, “Why can't we also adopt the same strategy?”

Of course, these issues are affecting those in the communities and their livelihoods. It's going on. It's been downplayed because of the various issues with Boko Haram in the north. It's still going on in the Niger delta. It's still a very big issue that needs attention.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

You're saying these aren't historical allegations; this is what is going on today. The hiring of so-called security to defend facilities.... It's these armed gangs.

If that's the case, are they defending the facilities, or are they being used as the front lines to push people off their lands, cover it up and silence people dealing with the environmental devastation of the oil production?

[Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu]

I would say it's both. You have organizations on the ground covering these issues. Lots of efforts have been made to silence the people and push them off their properties because of oil. They're carrying out tests and trying to pass on their pipes. It is ongoing. It's true that it's been long.

The only difference now is that there's a lot more awareness. A lot of civil society organizations are creating awareness among the people. There's also a coordinated effort to get the people's voice out. That's unlike what we had, for example, in the last decade or two decades ago. Now we also have judgments at the ECOWAS court, at the regional level, against some of the big companies, such as Shell. They're mandating them to clean up, but it's not necessarily addressing the issue of physical violence and attacks against the people and communities. This is another area where focus needs to be put.

Yes, it's ongoing. It's current.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

I will say, in my closing time, that we are seeing right now around the world—as a result of the war in Ukraine—huge levels of inflation, growing insecurity and food insecurity. It's compounded in Nigeria by attacks on farmers and communities. There's violence. There are real questions that have been raised. We've heard about issues—basic things, such as malnutrition.

You have an opportunity here to tell legislators in Canada what role we can play. What do you think Canada can do in a practical way to help people try to stabilize the situation and keep people safe at this time in Nigeria?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Give a brief response, please, but feel free to fully answer the question.

[Hulda Fahmi]

There needs to be an end to the violence. The violence continues because they enjoy impunity. Nigeria has had a lot of time to work on this. We've seen they've been either unwilling or unable to, but we see that, largely, they're more unwilling.

The key thing is holding Nigeria accountable. It's about investigating the crimes, holding perpetrators accountable and bringing an end to the violence. I think that is the key. Nigerians are smart enough to work out their country.

It's also about the implementation of the good laws that already exist in the country, and the repealing of anti-blasphemy and similar laws.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

We'll continue to the next round of four minutes with Liberal member Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing here today and giving us your good information. I have a bunch of questions, but none of them seem to be substantial enough to match the testimony you've given.

We see a great deal of violence, as you say, continuing in a context of deep poverty, malnutrition, high inflation and so forth, and it seems that there's a fundamental breakdown of society. The civil authorities are not able to maintain order. In fact, they seem to be part of the problem. They seem to be part of the violence. I think nothing says a breakdown of civil authority more clearly than extrajudicial executions.

While I support all of my colleagues' interests in getting help from the United Nations and other external resources, I think we've seen, over the 20th century and even into the 21st century, that solutions cannot be imposed from without. They have to have a competent, strong and willing partner within the country.

Do you see some aspect of the government that is strong enough to work with, that is strong enough to build out a more stable, peaceful society from? I see we have new elections and a new government coming into play. I'm wondering if you see hope there, as a way forward in addressing these problems.

I'll throw it open to both witnesses to answer as you please.

[Hulda Fahmi]

I'll try to keep it brief so Angela has time.

I think one of the things people have raised is being in touch with the governors who are working among the communities affected and come from displaced communities. Several governors have been trying to make changes. I think connecting with them is important.

One of the recommendations that people on the ground have made is to have local security or local police for their areas. This is one key thing. Now we hear, for example, that the U.S. is giving more military aid to Nigeria. We've seen what the military has done, so giving more military aid is not going to solve the situation.

With regard to the new government, I have not heard much positive about it, that it's going to change. The only thing people are hopeful about is that, in the transition, there might be some release of religious prisoners of conscience.

Go ahead, Angela.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have 50 seconds.

[Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu]

With regard to accountability, I think there are some opportunities with the national preventive mechanism. It could play a real role, if empowered and truly independent, to check excesses by the police and security agents with regard to torture and extrajudicial killings.

With regard to the new government, while it is important to be hopeful that perhaps when the cabinet is inaugurated it will have credible persons who are committed to pushing some change, right now the government, given the elections, does not give us that hope, because there was a lot of violence sponsored by the government and the party that won the election.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I believe that is my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Yes. Thank you for joining us today, Mr. McKinnon, and filling in for one of our colleagues at the committee.

We're going to welcome Ms. Falk.

Thank you for joining us. Welcome to the committee. You have four minutes, please.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I just want to take a moment to thank the witnesses for being here today. I commend each of them for the important work they and their organizations are doing to protect and promote human rights in Nigeria.

I'm just wondering—this is for both of the witnesses—if you could touch on any specific challenges or obstacles that your organizations in particular face with the work you're doing in Nigeria.

[Hulda Fahmi]

I think one of the main issues we face is that not enough attention is on the situation. We are receiving a lot of harrowing reports, and we are trying in different ways to get the message out. We have had several events at the Commission on the Status of Women. As parallel events, we've had UN Human Rights Council side events and have tried to get states to sponsor them to raise the issue.

I think the issue is that we feel that's where it ends. Even if special rapporteurs have supported and spoken out, I think the inaction on the government side has been the biggest challenge. Nigerians have even come to the U.S. to different hearings and shared about the situation, but still there has not been movement or political will outside of Nigeria to address it.

[Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu]

On our own part, the key challenges that Avocats sans frontières France is facing in the country are in regard to, again, inaction on the part of the government and a lack of response to advocacy—for example, to have the right policy and the right will to implement legislation that will bring about change.

There is also the ever-changing context, the regulatory framework, for non-governmental organizations, particularly the international NGOs. That's one key challenge we are facing in the work we do.

There is always the fear, of course, of reprisal or push-back by the government because of the sensitive issues we're working on, such as the death penalty and extrajudicial killings.

These are some of the concerns and challenges that we experience.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

Another question I have is, how are your organizations and international organizations in general received by persecuted Nigerians? Do the organizations find that there's a trust and openness to organizations like yours or other international organizations?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Please give a brief response.

[Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu]

I would say again that it depends on the side.

For the government, on the one hand, yes, there's openness and a willingness to partner with international organizations to bring about policy change. In other parts of society, there is openness but at the same time doubts as to whether the international NGOs and organizations are doing enough to push the government and hold the government accountable.