Evidence of meeting #29 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was penalty.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
2:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We know that the Canadian government is capable of imposing sanctions. We have seen it in other conflicts, such as the war between Russia and Ukraine, even though some people think that such sanctions are not always effective.
Couldn't Canada impose sanctions on those who are violating human rights in Nigeria or who are profiting directly or indirectly from the violation of human rights? Isn't that an example of measures that the Canadian government could take?
Once again, I will let the witnesses decide who will answer.
2:20 p.m.
Communications Associate, Jubilee Campaign
I would say to target the individuals who have not condemned the anti-blasphemy laws or who supported the murder of Deborah. I think that's also one way to sanction individuals who call for the death of somebody for expressing or exercising freedom of religion or belief. Also, I suggest visa bans, or similar sanctions, for individuals so they feel the pressure they're putting on their own civilians.
2:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you for the answer.
Did you have anything you wanted to add, Ms. Uzoma‑Iwuchukwu?
2:20 p.m.
Head of Office, Nigeria, Lawyers Without Borders France
Yes, I would like to answer that.
I'd like to say very quickly that Canada can perhaps put out an open statement to support, for example, the use of universal jurisdiction against the particular individuals who are perpetrating torture in the country, since they're not being held accountable in the country. It could put pressure on the government to know that Canada is.... When Canada puts out that statement, other countries could also find ways to support such a stance.
2:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Our committee has done many studies on the human rights situations in various countries around the world. I do not know whether you feel the same way in Nigeria, but last year, we heard that the war between Russia and Ukraine was overshadowing situations in the rest of the world and that this was causing some resentment among populations that are suffering. No one is saying that we should not help Ukraine. However, most of the efforts and aid are focused on that country right now. There may be other countries that are seeing that and that would like to remind us that they exist too, because, unfortunately, they feel as though they are less important than the Ukrainians right now.
Is that the impression that you get, Ms. Fahmi?
2:20 p.m.
Communications Associate, Jubilee Campaign
Yes, that's always the case with Africa. It's similar with Sudan where the tension was very.... The need in southern Nigeria for the people to.... They're also sometimes oblivious to what's going on in the north, so that's one area where civil society is trying to get engagement within the country.
There is a lot of engagement now, and greater engagement in the diaspora. One reason is that those who do speak out face reprisals. That makes it very difficult to get a loud voice from within Nigeria, but they are speaking out. There are incredible lawyers and others who are really advocating for freedom.
2:20 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Since that was my last turn to speak, I just want to sincerely thank the two witnesses who came to share their insight with us.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
We'll continue to our final questioner.
Mr. Angus, you have four minutes.
2:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
At the beginning of the meeting today, Lawyers Without Borders talked about the number of people on death row, facing execution. I'm trying to remember what the number was, but it seemed to be extraordinarily large.
Can you break this down for us, to make sense of this application of state violence? Is it arbitrary detention, the targeting of religious minorities, a response to criminal gangs or terror threats, or just a general breakdown of peace and security that requires such massive levels of detention and the use of something as extreme as the death penalty? Can you walk us through that?
2:25 p.m.
Head of Office, Nigeria, Lawyers Without Borders France
The sad thing to note about the death penalty in Nigeria is that we have what we call the mandatory death penalty. This means that for certain offences, the court has no discretion. The judge cannot exercise any discretion, but must hand down the death penalty. Once there's a conviction, there's no room for an appeal to ask for a lighter sentence.
Against this background, unfortunately, this is not only applicable to the most serious crimes, for example, genocide, but it is for offences such as kidnapping, armed robbery, adultery under sharia law and blasphemy. These are being handed down on a daily basis.
It's not as though it is targeting any particular group. It is across the country. It is used widely, because it's hinged on the constitution. Sadly, this is the background, and that's why you have that number. The statistics are that over 3,200 people are on death row, and the number is growing every day.
2:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Adultery is sufficient for a judge to bring down the death penalty without any ability to mediate the sentence. That would suggest to me a legal system that is heavily stacked against the rights of women to be heard. Would that be fair to say?
2:25 p.m.
Head of Office, Nigeria, Lawyers Without Borders France
I would like to highlight that adultery, in this context, is only applicable under sharia law, which is applicable in the northern parts of the country. At least 19 states, in the northern part of the country, apply sharia law.
Yes, of course, it is heavily skewed against women. The case that brought Avocats sans frontières France to Nigeria was actually one of such cases, that of a woman who was sentenced to death by stoning for adultery, so yes, that's the reality.
2:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
In Uganda, we've heard the laws have just been changed to bring the death penalty against LGBTQ people.
Is state violence or sharia law being used to threaten death to people who are of a gay background?
2:25 p.m.
Head of Office, Nigeria, Lawyers Without Borders France
Yes. As I mentioned earlier, we currently have a case in Bauchi involving gay men who have been sentenced to death. They're currently in Bauchi state.
It's also being used to target members of the LGBTQ community, particularly in the north, again, under sharia law.
2:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you. That ends of my questioning.
Thank you, Chair, for inviting me and letting me sit in on this committee.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sameer Zuberi
Thank you for being here today, Mr. Angus and everybody else—all the members.
I'd like, in particular, to thank the witnesses for their testimony and for being here to share their knowledge with all of us for the last hour and a half.
Hulda Fahmi, from Jubilee Campaign, and Angela Uzoma-Iwuchukwu, from Lawyers Without Borders France, thank you for sharing. Please continue your advocacy. It's very important for us.
We are now going to go to the in camera session for the members. We will continue on with committee business. For those of you on Zoom, please follow those links that were sent to you already.
Thank you, everybody.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
