Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 17th, 2023

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In future, let's aim for equal time, but I know that we're more collegial at this committee than at other places.

I think we do want to get to committee business, so I'll be quick. I want to ask about opposition engagement.

I believe we need to do more, as western countries, to engage with opposition groups that are opposing the Taliban in various ways and preparing for a post-Taliban future for Afghanistan. How are opposition groups doing in terms of the inclusion of Hazaras in them? Are there effective efforts within opposition groups to build pluralistic alternatives to the Taliban, or is that more limited or more challenged?

[Dr. Tahir Shaaran]

Is that for me?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's for whoever wants to answer it.

[Dr. Tahir Shaaran]

Mr. Ibrahimi, do you want to answer, or should I?

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

I think I can quickly comment on this.

With regard to opposition groups, as we know, they have ben facing significant challenges in terms of reorganizing over the past two years. However, I think recently there have been some important statements coming from members of the opposition groups to the Taliban, including Ahmad Massoud, the leader of the National Resistance Front in Afghanistan. I think he made quite a strong statement in Paris, when he was recently visiting that city, when he specifically called on the international community to recognize two things in Afghanistan. One was gender apartheid and the second was Hazaras genocide.

That also brings me to another point that I would like to quickly make. Afghanistan under the Taliban is presenting multiple challenges in humanitarian and political security. With all of this, I really appreciate the fact that this committee is looking at the situation of Hazaras in particular, because—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. That is my two minutes.

Other witnesses can follow up in writing, if they want, on the question of opposition groups. Again, I do think engaging opposition groups is something very important that western countries need to do more of. We want to encourage and support them in their efforts towards inclusiveness as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ibrahimi, you seemed to want to respond to my colleague Ms. Vandenbeld's comments.

If we recognize genocide, what does that mean for the future or for other peoples? Acknowledging what happened could prevent such a situation from happening again.

Do you have any comments on that?

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

Was that question for me?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, the question is for you, Mr. Ibrahimi.

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

Thank you.

I think that was the point I was trying to make. While I think there were multiple challenges resulting from Afghanistan being under Taliban rule, the urgency and the significant nature of the genocide currently confronting the Hazaras in Afghanistan is deserving of particular attention. Because of that, I'm really appreciating that this committee has launched this study into the situation of the Hazaras in Afghanistan. I think there are multiple other challenges that are all being dealt with in different forums in different ways.

I think the situation of the Hazaras in Afghanistan deserves attention. One, it brings healing and attention and recognition to the Hazaras, but most importantly, in my view, it also brings future mass atrocity prevention. I think recognition can be a first step in raising international awareness. Recognition can also be the first step towards a series of other measures that would be undertaken by Canada and other international players to prevent a future recurrence of these atrocities towards the Hazaras.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ibrahimi.

I would also like to thank all of the witnesses, or nearly all of them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Madam McPherson, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Ibrahimi, I just want to say that you are an excellent spokesperson for the Hazaras.

One of the things we are concerned about is that obviously the Hazaras in Afghanistan are at great risk, but I would also like to talk about the things Canada can do to help folks if they are trying to flee violence. We know that it has been very difficult for people to come to Canada. It's a challenge to go through Pakistan. There are many challenges. What would you like to see the Canadian government do in terms of helping the Hazaras who are most at risk within Afghanistan flee that violence right now?

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

Well, the Hazaras are facing the highest level of risk, but they are also the group that has the least representation among the number of people who were evacuated and given safe asylum from Afghanistan over the past two years.

One thing is the recognition of those threats in the refugee application processing and the location of those numbers among different groups from Afghanistan. I think that would be a great thing, especially for the at-risk Hazara women who were members of the security forces.

I think you have already discussed the issue of intersectionality of gender, ethnicity and the progressive views that were quite widely practised by Hazaras, but especially women. I think there's a very large number of them in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. I think Canada can really step in and help this very large number of people who are currently facing significant risks to their safety and well-being in Afghanistan, especially in light of the recent crackdown on refugees by the Iranian and Pakistani governments.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Now we come to an end for the second round.

On behalf of all members of the committee and the staff here, we would like to thank our witnesses for their presence and for their testimony on the study for the report on Hazaras in Afghanistan. If you think of other information that may be useful to the committee, please either contact the clerk or send it in writing.

Thank you for your presence.

We will now suspend briefly to allow our witnesses to leave. We will then resume in camera.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]