Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 24th, 2023

[Dr. Gregory Stanton]

I will, please.

We have actually studied this. Does using the G-word, “genocide”, actually make any difference? We did a study back in 2007 to see what the difference was if people called it “ethnic cleansing” in four previous genocides, and what happened as soon as the word “genocide” became the dominant term in The New York Times, among human rights groups, in the UN and in lawyer use. It makes a huge difference.

If the term “ethnic cleansing” is the dominant term, no force will be used to stop it. As soon as the word “genocide” is used, the use of force becomes possible. It's still a a very powerful word.

It was right after Srebrenica that finally NATO authorized the use of force in Bosnia. It was right after that declaration by David Scheffer, our war crimes ambassador, that genocide was under way in Kosovo, that we began bombing Belgrade, and they immediately surrendered. The same was true in Rwanda.

The exception that proves the rule was Darfur. Even though the Secretary of State said it was genocide, they couldn't get the UN to agree, so they sent in their own commission of inquiry that said no, there wasn't enough evidence of intent here so they couldn't call it a genocide. Guess what. That means the genocide was never really addressed, so it's still going on. It makes a difference if you declare that it should be genocide.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Ms. Javadi, on the same subject, what could be added to the report to strengthen it, so that Canada recognizes the fact that genocide took place?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

You have a few seconds, please.

[Dr. Gregory Stanton]

I think a good legal analysis is what is needed. You need to have experts on international law, and by the way—

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Stanton, but the question was for Ms. Javadi.

[Soomaya Javadi]

This genocide has happened to my great-grandfather all the way to me. Because this crime and what is happening to us doesn't have a name, we cannot address this, but if it has a name, you can prosecute this, and you can take away the impunity of the people who commit this and the people who benefit from this.

Nowadays people who have committed this and have benefited from it indirectly, they deny it. It hurts us. As much as what they did to my great-grandparents, as much as what they did to me, it hurts me when they deny it. This recognition is a relief, and it's very meaningful to my community and me.

Thank you.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Javadi.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Now I invite Ms. McPherson to take the floor for two minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I agree with the question that my colleague from the Bloc just asked. I certainly want to give some space so we can hear from all of the witnesses.

Mr. Sultani, I know your hand was up, if you'd like to intervene.

[Zaman Sultani]

Thank you.

I wanted to say that the Hazara community has lost about 62% or more of its population. They have faced decades of perpetual widespread and systematic discrimination. That is what and how the whole century of the history of the Hazara has been.

I believe this committee has the power and the tools to at least recognize what the Hazara have gone through and the challenges they are facing. Institutionally, opinions might differ, but to me, personally, the Hazaras have openly faced and are facing a genocidal attack, and that continues today. We see that from Daesh, and we saw that in the nineties, unfortunately.

Thank you.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

I think that's a good place to end our meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Thank you, witnesses, for your testimonies and your participation in the study on the situation of the Hazaras in Afghanistan.

Please contact the clerk if you have any additional information for the subcommittee.

On behalf of all members of the committee, I would like to thank all the witnesses for their thoughts and for their participation. It was an extremely interesting meeting.

Thanks a lot, and have a great day.

If it is the will of the committee....

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a brief question.

I know we discussed future business at our last meeting; it was in camera. Has it been our practice to invite written submissions on those? Is that something that we should agree to do?

I don't want a surprise, folks. Maybe we can discuss it later. I thought that, because we are going to be starting potential new studies, it might be worth inviting written briefs as well. Are people comfortable with that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Yes. If the committee agrees, there's no problem.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. We'll put out then the opportunity, in the next two studies, for people to send in written briefs as well.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.