Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 31st, 2023

[Nathaniel Raymond]

We will be releasing a report on this subject imminently. That's all I can say for now. Stand by.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. Please refer that directly to the committee.

Do our folks online want to share at all about the Belarusian involvement in this situation?

[Andrii Mikheiev]

Yes. We would like to say that it's very important to investigate and talk publicly about the impact and the role of Belarusian authorities. There is not much information that is publicly available, or not much information that can be obtained about their role, but we know for sure that they used the territory of Belarus as a transport corridor and that some Ukrainian children were put into camps in the Belarusian territory.

That's why the actions of the Belarusian officials are no less criminal in this regard than the acts of the Russian authorities. They should be cited properly and the perpetrators should also be liable.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Mikheiev.

I now invite Mr. Trudel to take the floor for two minutes.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I am intrigued. You published a detailed report on a complex situation. After all, this is a country that is at war. Ukraine and Russia are at war right now. I am impressed by the amount of information you have managed to garner, even though the situation on the ground is very difficult.

Firstly, how do you go about getting that information? Secondly, are the international organizations that could come and support this process able to safely go into the field? Are things working well?

Is access to Russia's territory facilitated by international organizations that could better document what we are talking about today?

[Nathaniel Raymond]

It is important to know that we have no secret information. It comes through the large-scale analysis of open-source information that comes primarily from, in this case, social media parents looking for their kids, combined with the data being released through bad tradecraft by the Russians, combined with the fact that they are not hiding it.

This is primarily a propaganda operation. They are attempting to rebrand a failing invasion. In so doing, they are providing us with the ability to extract a map from their social media, which allows us to use things like satellites to then monitor patterns of life, including logistical patterns.

What we have here is the fusion, the mosaic effect, of multiple streams together.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Am I to understand that the Russian state is bragging on social media about kidnapping Ukrainian children?

[Nathaniel Raymond]

Our number one source of information, 100%, is the Russian government. When online, I am attacked by information operations that say, “How do we know?” Well, we know because the perpetrator told us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Raymond.

Thank you, Mr. Trudel.

I invite Ms. McPherson to take the floor for two minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will give my two minutes to the International Center for Ukrainian Victory guests so that they can tell us what they would like to see this committee do.

Please go ahead.

[Andrii Mikheiev]

I would like to add to Mr. Raymond's statement about the character of the deportationists' propaganda operation.

They are boasting about the adoption of children. The number they are providing on children deported to the Russian territories is much bigger. The Ukrainian authorities have established there were 20,000 children deported. The Russian mass media tells of more than 700,000 Ukrainian children officially deported and placed. We think this number is exaggerated, and we don't know how it's accounted for. Anyway, they are not hiding anything.

Unfortunately, a lot of information is still not available to either NGOs or the law enforcement authorities of Ukraine. We will find a lot more cases, unfortunately, after the occupied territories are released, some of them only after the war is finished.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

You still have 20 seconds, if someone wants to express something.

Thank you.

Now I would like to invite Ms. Vandenbeld to take the floor for two minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and the committee, for giving me these two minutes on another very important issue.

Every year, as we all know, this subcommittee recognizes human rights defenders around the world, whom we choose unanimously as a committee. One of the recipients of that recognition in 2021 was Nasrin Sotoudeh, who is a prominent human rights lawyer in Iran. We learned yesterday through Parliamentarians for Global Action that Nasrin Sotoudeh was beaten and arrested in Iran yesterday. She was attending the funeral of a 16-year-old girl, Armita Geravand, who died as a result of her injuries after an incident with the so-called morality police because she wasn't wearing a head covering on public transit. We have word now, through her husband and other sources, that others at that funeral were also beaten and arrested.

I know that as a committee, we all call unanimously for the immediate and unconditional release of Nasrin Sotoudeh and the others arrested alongside her. I seek unanimity. I know I speak for committee members. We condemn this arrest and others like it, and we want to see Nasrin Sotoudeh released.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld. This news is heartbreaking. I believe that the entire committee shares your opinion and asks for her release immediately, without any conditions.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have my hand up. I wonder whether I could have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Yes, please go ahead.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm wondering whether or not it would be appropriate for the committee to report this to the House in a statement, or simply report it to the House.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to make that a formal motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Okay. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I want to strongly agree with the comments made by Ms. Vandenbeld.

This subcommittee does important work in bringing light to these issues and profiling people who are heroes fighting for human rights around the world. It's important that we continue to follow up and advocate for them and for all the people in Iran who have faced horrific treatment by the regime.

I'm supportive as well of the proposal by Ms. MacPherson to report that call for release through the foreign affairs committee. That is the process we have to follow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Ms. Vandenbeld, please go ahead.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I would propose, then, that the text of the motion be, “The Subcommittee on International Human Rights unanimously condemns the arrest of Nasrin Sotoudeh and calls for her immediate and unconditional release.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you. Excellent.

Do you all agree?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I think the text of the motion should include that the committee reports the motion to the House, but yes, I agree.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Witnesses, thank you for your testimony and for participating in this study on the unlawful transfer of Ukrainian children to Russia. If you have anything further to submit to the subcommittee, please do so through the clerk.

Colleagues, I would like to inform you that some of the witnesses appearing next week are under the age of 18 and may have experienced traumatic events related to the subject of this study. Mental health support will be available to members, staff and witnesses.

If members would like to receive a briefing about engaging with vulnerable witnesses or receiving difficult testimony, the clerk will help organize a special session. However, it may have an impact on the timeline for this study. If you have questions about the supports available, please advise the clerk as soon as possible.

Because of the sensitive nature of this study and the young age of these witnesses, I will also be more flexible in terms of speaking time, so as not to interrupt the flow of emotional testimony.

I would also like to remind members that requests to travel for the period of January to March 2024 are due by November 10.

Do members wish to travel during this period? In particular, I think it might be helpful for the committee to visit with representatives of the United Nations in New York. I would like to have your thoughts and whether you approve of it or not.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.