Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 21st, 2023

[Andriy Kostin]

This is a pattern used by Russia to destroy Ukraine as a nation, because kidnapping our children on such a massive scale is an attempt to steal our future, the future of our nation.

The first arrest warrant, as we mentioned already, is for Putin, who is at the top of this systematic practice, with explicit evidence that this is a part of Russian genocidal policies against Ukraine and Ukrainians.

You are absolutely right to mention that, first, the transfer of children from one group to another is in itself a part of the crime of genocide. We also have witnessed not only this element of genocide, but also another one: the incitement to commit genocide. We have already two convictions in Ukrainian courts against Russian propagandists, including one who publicly called for the killing of Ukrainian children—sinking them in the river.

With this, the other propagandist, Gasparyan, who is now also convicted by the Ukrainian courts, is the author of the so-called term “denazification”, which they used against us. He's one of the leaders of this incitement to genocidal policies. Of course, when this is systematic, from the incitement to the commission of the element of genocide, it's explicit evidence that the genocidal intent of the Russian Federation to erase, to eliminate, Ukraine as a nation is in fact present.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you for that.

I have a two-part question.

First, in order to deal with international war crimes, it's important to be able to name and identify, so we've identified Vladimir Putin as a major war criminal, obviously, and Madam Lvova-Belova, the so-called children's minister. How much work has been done to identify the enablers, the functionaries, the low-level people who are engaged in the forcible taking of children and who have an obligation to protect those children? Are we able to start naming them and issuing warrants in the international arena?

As well, for the 19,000 forcibly deported children, do we have good records on where we think they may be, who they and their families are? What is the connection in terms of the importance of having that information?

[Andriy Kostin]

This is extremely important information in order to make it possible to prosecute and punish everyone who is involved in the commission of this crime and, second, to have information on where our children are in order to return them home.

Accountability in itself is not enough to return our children back home. It's an important element of pressure, I would say, on Russian authorities to start to return our children, but it's not enough. That's why we are calling for the creation of an international mechanism on how to return our children, where Canada is one of the leaders, together with Ukraine, and uniting the other nations that are ready to help us.

Coming back to your first question, of course we have investigations, as already mentioned, where we know those who are involved in the commission of this crime, the abduction of our children, on the higher and medium levels, and the regional level. Once we have this information, we need to share it in order to sanction them, as I mentioned, while we are continuing our investigations. For the names we identify, we're sharing this information in order to sanction them prior to indicting them. On the international level, of course, we are going on with helping the ICC investigate these cases, wider and broader, and I hope we will all see results of this investigation in the future.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I want to go to a more sensitive area in terms of support for the families. Canada has its own dark history of forcibly taking children from the indigenous communities. Children were taken as a government policy. I represent many families who have gone through that. The trauma is multi-generational. We're still picking up the pieces for policies that were enacted 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

I know that we're talking about children who are at risk now. What are the supports in place for the families? Do you have the resources necessary, given the war and everything else, to support the families? This will have long-term implications for protecting the families and protecting those children.

[Andriy Kostin]

Thank you very much for this question. You have really raised a sensitive issue. Our policy at the government level is to ensure support to all victims and survivors of this war. A large number of the victims and survivors of this war are definitely the relatives and the parents of the kids who are kidnapped. They are already victims of this war.

This war was unprovoked and unjustified. We lived in our country peacefully. We were attacked by Russia. A substantial part of our economy and industry was destroyed by Russia. In order to run the country and to ensure that all victims of this war have proper social security and support from the government, we need such support on a long-standing basis from our friends and allies.

In terms of helping Ukrainians who are now affected by this war, it's not just helping our government to run the country in a time of war. It's not only helping us to close the deficit in our budget. It's completely humanitarian in nature. These people can receive social security payments and protection only with help from those in the international community who stand with Ukraine.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Canada can help—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Angus. I'm sorry. The time is up.

Since our time is restricted, every member will have only two and a half minutes.

Madam Vandenbeld, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you. I was going to share my time, but with two minutes, I'm not sure we'll have time for that.

I did want to start by telling you, and all those who are with you, that Canada is absolutely behind you. The work you are doing will go such a long way toward making sure there is no impunity, which is so vitally important in order to really have peace with justice when this is over. Thank you for what you're doing.

I do have a concern here. You mentioned, for instance, that there is a pretext here. Russia is saying that this is for evacuation and that this is for the children's protection. These are arguments that they would continue to make, particularly in tribunals and courts. How can you document enough to be able to show that it's systematic and that these are not individual crimes? Will you be able to show that there is a deliberate, systematic, purposeful reason for doing these crimes?

[Andriy Kostin]

I will give you an example. For instance, when we liberated the Kharkiv region, we started to interact with families whose children were transferred to Russia. They were pressed by occupation authorities to sign something, like a power of attorney, with a blank for the person who would be somehow accompanying their children. They didn't even know where their children were transferred. We have a lot of such cases. We have documented all of them. This is only one example of how they were treated.

From the point of view of international humanitarian law, they should unconditionally return all Ukrainian citizens, including children, back to Ukraine. They have a lot of instruments. There are international organizations. There are third countries. Via different UN institutions, we have sent this signal many times. If they're pretending to evacuate Ukrainian children, then just release them and return them home. If you're not ready to do it directly to Ukraine, do it through other countries or with the help of international organizations.

But they don't want to do it. Only with international pressure have they been doing it from time to time. It's not enough.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I have two follow-up comments initially. I strongly share the contention that the evidence you've provided and the other evidence we've heard demonstrate that the Russian regime is committing genocide as part of their invasion of Ukraine. The House of Commons made that determination early on, and I think it's one worth reinforcing now, strengthened by the evidentiary record you provided. The international legal definition of genocide makes it very clear.

The second comment I want to make is that I think the conclusion we should draw from your testimony is that it's not only about the need to support organizations that are pursuing justice in these particular cases but to redouble our commitment to supporting Ukrainian victory. There can be no justice without Ukrainian victory.

This testimony underlines the high stakes. We're not just talking about the abstract question of territory or where a border is. We're talking about how, when you have occupation, people are being stolen. The horrific atrocities the people have to live under if they are in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine underline why, rightly, there is no desire to compromise on the core principles of territorial integrity.

I asked about sexual violence as well as torture during my initial question. I wonder if you can follow up on the issue of torture, specifically the treatment of detainees.

In the context of child abduction, we've heard testimony that I think would amount to descriptions of torture of children who have been abducted. I wonder if you could speak more broadly to the use of torture by the occupying forces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Answer in one minute, please.

[Andriy Kostin]

Torture is, once again, systematic. We are investigating thousands of cases of torture, even in the Kherson region, which we liberated.

With all of the evidence, we have identified at least 11 torture chambers, which are places of illegal detention where all possible ways of torture were used against Ukrainian civilians.

Torture is a mass practice that is used against our prisoners of war while they are under Russian control. When they are released, they give us evidence of the torture and ill treatment that was committed against them during their presence in Russia.

Torture is a weapon of war used by Russia. It definitely is part of their policy of persecution. Once again, all these elements of genocidal intent, of course, give us certainty that Russia is committing the crime of genocide.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Two minutes is not a lot of time, especially when we have a witness as exceptional as you, Prosecutor General.

In fact, Mr. Kostin, you have the highest level of knowledge on this file. I'll give you my two minutes to add anything you didn't get a chance to say.

The floor is yours, Prosecutor General.

[Andriy Kostin]

I think that this war of aggression has showed all the world that the system of international humanitarian law, of international law and order, needs to be improved in order to prevent the commission of such crimes in Ukraine, in Europe and in other parts of the world in the 21st century. In order to make it possible, we need to combine our efforts to fill in the gaps in the system of international humanitarian law.

One of these gaps is the mechanism of how to return illegally transferred, illegally kidnapped children and civilians. We also have evidence of at least 16,000 adult civilians who are illegally detained in Russia. There are not enough mechanisms to return them back home. International humanitarian law does not provide the procedure of the exchange of civilians.

I'm sorry to use this cynical wording, but that's why, I think, combining our efforts to create such mechanisms and to make United Nations' mechanisms more efficient and more workable.... We need to be united for this. We need to combine politicians and lawyers in the sphere of international humanitarian law to create such mechanisms.

Once again, we will do our job as prosecutors, my team, the team of Karim Khan and our colleagues in other countries, but it's not enough to ensure that all the children will be returned back home.

It's our obligation. I think it's our joint obligation to do it, to manage to create such mechanisms and to execute these mechanisms to return our children back home.

This will prevent commission of such crimes in other places of the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Kostin.

Now I would like to invite Mr. Angus to take the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair.

We've been witnessing unprecedented levels of violence and trauma inflicted on the Ukrainian people and also the incredible resilience and defiance of Ukraine. Canada is just a middle power, but we have a strong emotional link to the Ukrainian people.

What steps do you think Canada needs to take to ensure we are there in the long term, whether it's on humanitarian, on reconstruction or on ensuring that international law is utilized to its full extent so that the perpetrators of these crimes know that, no matter how long it takes, they will not walk away free and the international community will hold them to account? What role can Canada play in helping that?

[Andriy Kostin]

In order to ensure that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people will live in peace, we need to win this war, and winning this war means defeat to Russia. This is not only for Ukraine and Ukrainians. Once again, this is in order to restore international law and order. You can see that when war is aggressive, when war is ongoing, we are facing new hot spots on the global map, and we're afraid that we all will see more if Ukraine does not defeat Russia as soon as possible.

All elements of support, starting from military support and financial support to humanitarian support, political support and support in our quest for justice and accountability, should be sustainable, because it's not only for Ukraine. It's for all of you.

It costs a lot to reach our victory. Ukrainians, our great soldiers and officers, are paying with their blood. Ukrainian civilians are paying with their blood. Many nations who help us are paying their part of the costs, but it's usually the military and financial parts. We believe that as soon as we get everything we need for the victory, it will cost all of you less—if we receive what we need as soon as possible. If we receive it later, then it will cost you more. Every new conflict on the global map will cost all of us more.

In helping us to win as soon as possible, please don't forget that we are also saving the lives of our soldiers and our civilians, and we are saving the lives of those Ukrainians who are still under occupation and are still victims of the Russian regime. Do not only stand with us, but win this war with us. We are committed to fight. Please help us to win this war as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Kostin. Of course, sooner is better than later, especially in a case like this.

Thank you for your testimony and for participating in the study on the unlawful transfer of Ukrainian children to Russia. We appreciate your taking the time to meet with us and share your expertise on this very important topic.

If you have anything further to submit to the subcommittee, please contact the clerk.

Now I will briefly suspend this meeting so that we can welcome the next panel of witnesses for the study of international disability-inclusive education.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I call this meeting to order.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

To facilitate the participation of visually impaired participants at today's session, I would ask all members and witnesses to identify themselves each time they begin speaking.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by videoconference, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

Regarding interpretation for those on Zoom, you have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

In accordance with the committee's routine motion concerning connection tests for witnesses, I am informing the committee that all witnesses have completed their required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

It is my pleasure to welcome the second panel of witnesses who have joined us this morning as we begin our study of international disability-inclusive education.

From Education Cannot Wait, we have Yasmine Sherif, executive director, and Maha Khochen, program specialist, inclusive education and disability inclusion. From Global Campaign for Education-United States, we have Jennifer Rigg, executive director. From Inclusion International, we have Diane Richler, co-chair, catalyst for inclusive education, and Mónica Cortés, co-chair, catalyst for inclusive education. From Special Olympics International, we have Timothy Shriver, chairman, board of direction; and we have Gail Hamamoto, chief executive officer of Special Olympics Canada. From the United Nations Children's Fund, we have Robert Jenkins, global director, education and adolescent development.

We'll begin with Ms. Yasmine Sherif.

You have a maximum of five minutes to make your presentation, after which we will go to questions from subcommittee members.

I will let you know when you have a minute left.

Thank you for agreeing to appear today.

Ms. Sherif, the floor is yours for five minutes, please.

[Yasmine Sherif, Executive Director, Education Cannot Wait]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development of the House of Commons for having us here today with our colleagues and friends in the education sector.

It is a very important consultation, and I am glad to be here, together with my colleague, Maha Khochen. We can also respond to any questions. Maha will be the expert on any additional questions.

First of all, I would like to thank Canada as a founding member of Education Cannot Wait.

The ultimate question is, what is Education Cannot Wait? We are a global fund for education in emergencies and protracted crises. We are situated in the United Nations, and we work across the UN system. We are hosted by UNICEF, but work with all UN agencies. We work very closely with civil society organizations—Jennifer Rigg, of course, represents the global coalition—and together with education ministers, the private sector and strategic donor governments.

Canada was one of the founders of Education Cannot Wait at the World Humanitarian Summit and has also contributed generously. At our high-level financing conference earlier this year in Geneva, Switzerland, Canada pledged an additional $87 million over four years to Education Cannot Wait in our strategic plan for 2023-26.

The funding we received for the coming four years is targeting 20 million crisis-affected children, especially girls and adolescent girls who live in countries that are very hard to reach, fragile and affected by crisis- and climate-induced disasters and refugees. Canada has played an instrumental role in most of our interventions, but I would highlight also that additional contributions have been made to our investment in Bangladesh for the Rohingya refugees—to refugees and host communities, where we are reaching more than 350,000 children and adolescents.

When it comes to disability inclusion in education in emergencies, our approach is fully aligned with Global Affairs Canada's commitment to disability-inclusive education in line with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. We also welcome the global leadership that Canada showed during the G7 in Charlevoix, where, again, the Charlevoix declaration stated that girls with disabilities are especially marginalized and require particular attention.

What are we doing?

First of all, before going into Education Cannot Wait's work in the global south, let me mention that the World Health Organization estimates that 16% of the world population is experiencing significant disability. This is very interesting. Please remember this: 80% of them are in the global south, and many of them live exactly and precisely in emergency and protracted crisis situations.

Education Cannot Wait is a global fund that looks for learning outcomes and equality and also to make everyone work together, coordinated and jointly, rather than in silos, which has enabled us to successfully reach nine million children and adolescents in the hardest-hit parts of the world with a quality education. We address emergency response first, as well as long-term development investments.

We are committed to reaching 10% of children with disabilities. We have increased our budgetary allocation to reach children with disabilities to at least 5% of every program. You can see the kind of work we do with local organizations in Iraq and Colombia, to mention just a few. So far, we have reached over 100,000 children, who then receive Braille typewriters, sign language interpretation, long canes and infrastructure that will enable them to go to school. There is action, and there are results.

I have four seconds left. I will thank you once more.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Sherif.

Now I would like to invite Ms. Jennifer Rigg to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jennifer Rigg, Executive Director, Global Campaign for Education-United States]

Thank you to all esteemed members of the subcommittee, distinguished witnesses and everyone joining us today in person and online.

My name is Jennifer Rigg, and I serve as the executive director of the GCE-US. It's a coalition of over 80 national and community-based organizations, international groups, teachers' unions, student and youth groups, parent associations, organizations of persons with disabilities, academic institutions, faith-based groups and advocates dedicated to ensuring quality, inclusive, universal education for all.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you and to support this subcommittee's important study of international disability-inclusive education, including intellectual and developmental disabilities.

We are a broader part of the Global Campaign for Education, which is a network active in over 100 countries. Especially in Canada, we are so grateful to collaborate closely with the Canadian international education policy working group, sometimes known as CIEPWG.

I join the conversation today as a person with lived as well as professional experience in disability-inclusive education and human rights for all persons with disabilities, of all kinds, globally. I live with a visual disability and physical disabilities affecting my hands and wrists, for example. I am also the parent of children with dyslexia, dysgraphia and ADHD, and an aunt of students with autism.

My mother worked at a centre for independent living when I was younger, advocating for the Americans with Disabilities Act. I grew up in an advocacy and human rights environment, where my family helped fight for me to overcome challenges and stigma, and we continue doing so for others.

Please consider how you, your family, friends, networks and the global community are all affected by the full diversity of disabilities. Imagine you were born with a disability in a country such as Sudan, without a birth certificate, therefore making it even more challenging to access school and support systems, without early learning supports and with no access to inclusive education.

We strongly believe that every learner can thrive in any education system, with a twin-track approach to education that promotes system-wide transformation to improve the quality of inclusive education for all, while also providing targeted support to learners with disabilities.

You heard some of the statistics from Yasmine. We know that children and youth with disabilities are often marginalized and not given the chance to contribute within an inclusive school setting or all of the important economic and community aspects that can be unlocked after graduating from school. For example, at the primary level, completion rates for children with disabilities are 15 to 18 points below their peers, according to “The Price of Exclusion: Disability and Education”, and that's for the students who are lucky enough to make it into school.

In addition to completion rates, changing the perception of children with disabilities in and out of schools is very important. Often, the adults and people around children with disabilities might consider them unable to learn, even with accommodations and supports, and they may be kept out of school.

Securing and advancing the rights of children and youth—importantly, including persons with intellectual and developmental disabilities—are crucial to creating a brighter future for students of all identities. For example, school systems that support teachers and students, with foundational learning taught inclusively, create an environment where it is easier for all students to learn successfully.

With IDA, IDDC and GCE, we urge everyone to join the “Disability Inclusive Education: A Call to Action to Ensure Inclusive and Equitable Quality Education”, which has already been endorsed by over 220 organizations and global leaders, including ECW, Inclusion International, Special Olympics, UNICEF and organizations joining this wonderful session today. For your consideration in your recommendations, we highly recommend this call to action, and we have shared it in full.

It is possible to achieve international disability-inclusive education for all in our lifetimes. However, far more still needs to be done to realize the right to quality, inclusive education for all.

I am hopeful that this subcommittee and global leaders will advocate for international disability-inclusive education, including for intellectual and developmental disabilities. We would like to especially extend our gratitude to MP Mike Lake and to all of you for your global leadership, continued collaboration and commitment to ensuring inclusive education for all students.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Rigg.

Now I would like to invite Ms. Diane Richler from Inclusion International to take the floor for five minutes, please.