Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 21st, 2023

[Mónica Cortés]

Yes, here in Colombia we have a unique system in which all the children can go without separate schools. Of course, as Jennifer said, we are working to include and to work for this minority group of students and immigrants who are in the different emergencies and disasters.

It's necessary to show that the principles of inclusive education are better for all, as Mr. Shriver said. If we have a unique school, we can show that all benefit who are there, the whole community benefits, and that it's necessary to do. We need to have a better education system for all and to try to be better and to work together to achieve a really inclusive education for all. It's necessary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

For other members, please go ahead but do so quickly because time is really up.

Mr. Shriver, do you also want to add something quickly?

[Timothy Shriver]

It's been said. I think it's the time for action. I know there are studies planned. I would just point out the politics here. Let's remember. I know we're gathering in a political environment. There are people on this panel who are identified as Conservatives or Liberals or centrists or progressives. This is not a political issue. We have to be mindful of the fact that, because it is not a political issue, it sometimes slips from the political agenda. I would just remind us—and I'll go back to Mr. Lake's comments—that this is going to take a Herculean effort because no one is going to get advantaged.

That's what our constituents want. They want to see people across the aisle working together. They want to see us co-operating around common values. Let's make this a political issue in the best sense by showing what politics can do when people work together.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, but we have exceeded our time by a couple of minutes.

I now invite Denis Trudel to take the floor for seven minutes.

Mr. Trudel, go ahead.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today. I think this study is really important and interesting.

I would like to focus on the services provided to francophone children.

We already know that, in Canada, access to education for francophone children is problematic. I spoke with the representatives of the Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne who were here on the Hill a month ago. They told me that, in Saskatchewan, children had to travel 300 kilometres to go to school, and that's not talking about children with disabilities or specific problems. For francophone children with specific problems, access to services is quite a challenge, I think.

I'd like you to talk about that.

Mr. Jenkins, I'll start with you. I would like to know if this situation already exists in the world.

Does it require a specific approach in developing countries, for example, in Africa?

Is it more difficult for francophone children to have access to inclusive education or specialized services than it is for children who speak other languages?

I'd like to start with you, Mr. Jenkins.

[Robert Jenkins]

Thanks for the question.

I can speak to the importance of national education systems offering younger children, in particular, instruction in their mother tongue. The evidence is very clear. Children learn better and more effectively in their mother tongue. They can transition over time in later years. That is something that UNICEF engages on with governments all over the world. It supports programming to enable children to learn in the language that is spoken at home.

The second thing, to go back to inclusive education for children with disabilities—and I'm trying not to make this a political issue—as a politician, when I'm articulating the importance, there are two very simple arguments that I think have resonated in many countries.

One is that inclusive education systems are just more effective. They are more effective at reaching children with disabilities and enabling them to realize their rights. They are also more effective in terms of learning outcomes for children already in school.

Let's just be clear: Inclusive education systems are more effective and provide better education for all children.

Second, in terms of efficiency and economic return, there is a huge return on investment in enabling marginalized children, including children with disabilities, to realize their right to education. The return on that investment is very significant. This just also makes sense from an efficiency and effectiveness point of view.

To go back to the original question from his excellency, that includes also enabling children to learn in their mother tongue. It just makes sense.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's interesting. I actually wanted to ask you about that, Mr. Jenkins.

Children clearly learn better in their mother tongue, but when you don't have access to those services, what do you do? Is increased funding needed to enable these children to receive services in their mother tongue?

[Robert Jenkins]

Where UNICEF works in 135 program countries, as they're called, or low- or middle-income countries, we do invest in strengthening the capacity of teachers and in hiring local teachers from the area to provide learning materials in a variety of languages, depending on the location, to enable children to learn in their mother tongue and then transition over time.

It is very challenging in some countries when you're dealing with 45 to 50 languages, but, indeed, it's absolutely critical for us to continue to strive for younger children, in particular, to learn in their mother tongue around the world.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I would like to ask Ms. Richler more or less the same questions.

Have you noticed, in Canada, a difference in access to care and services for children living with these problems in the country's francophone communities?

[Diane Richler]

If it's okay with you, I will answer in English.

I think there has been a real shift in Canada in providing services for learners with disabilities, particularly intellectual disabilities, in French. I want to point to New Brunswick as an example. It is recognized universally. It has been cited by UNESCO, by the OECD and by others as having one of the most progressive inclusive education systems in the world, and that's true. It has two separate systems: the English system and the French system. They are both providing supports to learners with disabilities.

To follow up on what you said, Canada has, because of that, some of the best francophone experts in inclusive education. We're not taking advantage of them. We're not letting them share their expertise, neither the experts from Quebec nor the experts from New Brunswick, with other francophone countries around the world. Unfortunately, there are other French-speaking countries that are more active in that area but are not as progressive in the area of inclusive education.

I see that as a real opening for Canada to play a special role in terms of promoting education for French-speaking children with disabilities, based on our expertise in Canada.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I'm glad to hear that in New Brunswick there are world-class experts looking at these issues, but does that extend to the rest of Canada?

Do you still see a difference in services and access to care for children who have these kinds of problems elsewhere in Canada, especially for francophone children?

[Diane Richler]

This is Diane Richler again.

I'm sorry I can't cite specific examples, but I would be very happy to follow up and to provide information to the committee on what's happening in other communities in Saskatchewan and in Alberta where there are inclusive systems.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That would be very nice, and I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you very much, Ms. Richler.

[Diane Richler]

You're welcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Trudel.

Now I would like to invite Ms. McPherson to take the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for their testimony today. I particularly appreciate the comment that the work we do in the committee and the work you're all doing to promote inclusive education is good not just for children who require that inclusiveness but good for education systems and good for all children. I think that's really important.

I also think there is something to be said about how it becomes such better education. My son has ADHD. I have a private member's bill on ADHD that talks about making sure that the teachers and the doctors have the training to identify and treat ADHD, because we know that if it is treated and dealt with, there are some real positives, and there is an extraordinary cost if it is not. For me, I see that echoed around the world as we look at inclusive education.

Now, one of the things that I will disagree on a bit with our witnesses is that this is not a political issue. I'm sorry to say that it is a political issue, because what we are looking for here is increased funding. We're looking for increased funding to be able to do the work that Canada should be doing.

At the moment, our official development assistance is set at 0.3% of GNI. That is insufficient. We have a political party in this country that ran the last election on a 25% cut to ODA. These things cost money. We need to contribute to them. It is money up front. It is money that we need to spend now so that we don't pay a thousand times more later on, at a later date. From my perspective, I'm sorry, but this is political.

I appreciate what we heard, which is that there is a systemic review that is needed. One of the things I'd like to ask Mr. Jenkins is, how do we ensure that our ODA is better spent? Knowing that we have limited dollars, knowing that we need to have a systemic review of where that is going, do we need to tie strings...? Do we need to look at things like our multilateral organizations and demand data from them? We've heard today that there is insufficient data. Is this something that could be done to make sure that our ODA is being spent appropriately?

I'll start with you, Mr. Jenkins, if I could.

[Robert Jenkins]

Thank you very much for the question. It's great.

There are some very clear metrics we can use that we can engage on with best practices of development actors and development assistance to ensure they meet the minimum standards. Ideally, Canada would of course aspire to being greater than that, but on the minimum standards on ensuring their assistance, Canada's government assistance overseas is leveraged to the extent possible to promote inclusive education.

On the point you just raised, Ms. McPherson—and others—we're happy to provide those, and again, not only can it be related to Canadian assistance but by adhering to those benchmarks and promoting those benchmarks across other development actors, we can move the needle significantly. That's what I would encourage you to do, and we can.... It links to data. It links to including throughout this transformation of education systems basically how you can maximize those interventions to ensure children with disabilities are included.

I just want to flag one thing. If we don't do it, we also run the risk of doing harm, if you like. By providing assistance and enabling some children to learn and not others, you are running the risk of exacerbating disparities. It is absolutely critical that when intervening, let's say, particularly in humanitarian assistance, where you have large numbers of kids who require assistance in learning, we need to reach the most marginalized and work backwards. By doing so, that enables all children to benefit.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Ms. Richler, could I ask you the same question, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I'm sorry, Ms. McPherson. I believe Ms. Sherif would also like to add something.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes, certainly, Ms. Sherif. Would you like to start?

[Yasmine Sherif]

Thank you very much.

I think the strategic donor partners such as Canada are critically important, because what is missing for us to do this work jointly is the funding and a model where UNICEF is heavily invested, along with UNESCO, the World Food Programme and many civil society organizations working with refugees or with Plan Canada International and Save the Children. When you bring everyone to work together, you are more cost-effective, and if you have a board that meets with this group or this pooled funding mechanism on a regular basis, you have direct insight into what we are doing 24-7.

It's a new way of working, of working through global funds where everyone gets their share of the development and ODA money that is invested, but you also have a direct oversight as a donor, a contributing country.

I speak on behalf of Education Cannot Wait, and we are very keen to make sure that UNICEF gets the lion's share, but just as much, we do need civil society. Jennifer Rigg can also testify to that. We all have to work together to be cost-effective and more speedy and achieve sustainability and transparency.

[Diane Richler]

Thank you. It's Diane Richler again.

There is no question that the cutbacks in ODA have had a very negative effect. There has been a real narrowing of focus by the Government of Canada in terms of the issues that are being supported and the places that are being supported. Mónica and I are here representing an organization with members in over 100 countries, and they don't see Canada. This is an area where, as I said before, we have leaders. We have fantastic expertise to share, but we're not taking advantage of it.

I guess the other thing to say in terms of the positive side of it, yes, being a political issue is that the Prime Minister is now a member of what is called the group of friends of the sustainable development goals. However, when we see Canada's interventions at international fora on the SDGs, we don't hear about education, and we don't hear about disability. There are plans being made now for what is going to follow up on the sustainable development goals, and right now, even education is not on the agenda and disability even less so. One of the things that Canada could do right now while these negotiations are going on in New York is make sure that education is seen as a global priority for ODA, which it is not, and that persons with disabilities and their inclusion are seen not as a way of spending more money but as a way of enriching what happens and making sure that the quality of education is better.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Thanks, Ms. McPherson.

Now we will go to the second round. I would like to invite Ms. Damoff to take the floor for five minutes, please.

The floor is yours.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

I want to focus my question on international education, particularly in countries where it's difficult for young people to get an education. If you look at countries that are currently in a conflict, that have refugee camps, or a country like Afghanistan where girls can't access education, let alone any of these young people who have either a physical or an intellectual disability.... How do we reach those kids where accessing education is difficult to begin with, let alone living with a disability and being even below the bottom of the list?

Maybe UNICEF and Global Campaign for Education could comment on that one.

[Robert Jenkins]

I'll be brief. I really appreciate the emphasis on children living in humanitarian settings and through conflicts.

First of all, education needs to be seen as a life-saving intervention. It needs to be at the heart of humanitarian assistance. That continues to be a debate that we are losing. Currently, if you look at global humanitarian resources, you will see that 3% is allocated to enabling kids to learn, and that's a problem. That needs to increase. Yasmine Sherif from Education Cannot Wait, we at UNICEF and many others are championing the importance of enabling kids to learn.

Having served in Jordan for five years as the head of UNICEF just before this posting, I will say that, when you see a seven-year-old or an eight-year-old fleeing conflict come across the border.... They're eight, nine or 10 years old and their first need is that they want to continue to learn. They want to continue on a pathway.

Enabling learning also enables us to provide psychosocial support, mental health and a whole wide range of assistance, which is also then proving critical.

Now, when you have children facing multiple challenges to realizing their right to education, which is particularly the case in humanitarian settings—like I come back to—it is absolutely critical that the learning we provide to or enable for children is inclusive of every child. Enabling all children to be reached, including children with disabilities, also then breaks open the entire learning process, meeting children where they are in their learning journeys, where they are in their physical journeys, where they are with their psychosocial needs, etc.

The starting point is that every child in a humanitarian setting needs to be able to learn. It's at the centre of humanitarian assistance, and the international community, with Canada's leadership, will.... The innovative approaches that we now have—technology-enabled and others—to realize this vision are right at our fingertips. It just now requires us to take this goodwill and translate it into action, and that includes resources.