Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on March 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay. Correct. We're going to have to revert back.

Welcome back, witnesses. Again, our sincere apologies for this latest technical problem, in particular to Mr. de Souza Godoi, who is five hours ahead of us, as I was informed.

We will resume questions.

Mr. Trudel, you have three minutes, sir.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Canela de Souza Godoi, UNESCO published a report on March 10, 2022, highlighting the existential threat that social networks now pose to the survival of professional news media. That's an interesting issue.

It is said that over the past five years, audiences and advertising revenues have both migrated in large numbers to Internet platforms. For example, it is reported that Google and Meta—otherwise known as Facebook—now account for half of all global digital advertising spending, while at the same time, newspaper advertising revenues have declined by the same amount.

In addition, according to the UNESCO study, more than 1 million messages containing inaccurate information about the pandemic were circulated on Twitter in September 2020; that's in the space of just one month.

I think your report makes it clear that Facebook isn't an information medium. It's clearly a threat to the flow of information.

Can you tell us a little bit about this report published on March 10, 2022?

You talked about it a little earlier, but I'd like you to describe how the increase in revenues from the major platforms constitutes a threat to freedom of expression and the flow of information, and even to democracy, in a way.

[Guilherme Canela de Souza Godoi]

Thank you for the question.

The report is “World Trends in Freedom of Expression and Media Development”. Every four years, it analyzes the situation of media freedom, media independence and media pluralism worldwide. Therefore, these issues that you just mentioned—the issues of sustainable and viable media or how the Internet environment is impacting freedom of expression positively or negatively—are an essential element of the world trends report that was just published this month, in March.

Obviously, this is a very long report, but basically what I want to underline very quickly is that it brought forward this idea that journalism and information are public goods. In being public goods, they require special protection of the international system and special policies of the national environment to really protect those public goods that are so essential for our democracies. All the UNESCO 193 member states, including Canada, last November approved, in the UNESCO general conference, the “Windhoek+30 Declaration”, which underlines this idea of information and journalism as a public good and establishes three key areas.

One, which I've already mentioned before, is the transparency of the Internet companies. This is fundamental to developing evidence-based policy in these areas. Another is media viability. We can't live with media deserts. We can't live with zones of silence. This can actually impact a lot of our democratic freedoms. The third element, which we haven't mentioned here so far, is media information literacy. It's very important to empower citizens of all ages to deal with phenomena like disinformation and misinformation, hate speech online and conspiracy theories.

This report of UNESCO has gone into the details, not only in addressing the diagnosis but also in putting forward some key recommendations to all the relevant stakeholders in these areas.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Canela de Souza Godoi.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Monsieur Trudel.

We now turn to Ms. McPherson. You have three minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to ask a few questions, if I could, of Mr. Weimers from Reporters Without Borders.

One of the things I've been reflecting on is that we're talking a lot about international journalists and the impact on international journalists. I know we are the international human rights subcommittee, but I do want to bring forward the idea that Canadian journalists over the last several months have also been under attack.

How do we protect our Canadian journalists, particularly when we look at things like social media that is spreading a lot of misinformation or disinformation about mainstream media and mainstream reporters? Canada also has a role to lead by example. Our journalists are under attack in this country. What can we do about that, and how can we use that as a framework to move forward around the world?

[Clayton Weimers]

That is a great question. Canada has a commendable culture of free press. That's certainly reflected in Canada's ranking in the index, but that is not to say that there aren't always ways to improve.

Certainly there have been isolated incidents where journalists, whether they were covering the “freedom convoy” protest recently or whether they were covering indigenous protests in British Columbia late last year, have found themselves blocked from doing their jobs by the authorities on the ground. That is something that RSF is always strongly against.

When we're talking more in the global sense of how we can protect the profession of journalism, especially online, one interesting project that RSF has been working on recently is the journalism trust initiative. It essentially establishes the metrics by which we can measure authentic journalism.

You would go to a store and buy a refrigerator assuming that the refrigerator is always going to comply with international standards, that it's going to be safe, that you can have it in your home, but there is really no equivalent of international standards for what we would consider authentic journalism. That's what the JTI would seek to create. Essentially, it's a completely voluntary questionnaire that media organizations can participate in to become JTI-certified.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Is there any country in the world that is legislating this?

[Clayton Weimers]

No countries in the world are yet legislating it.

The exciting development would be if, say, Canada wanted to use a metric system like the JTI in order to assess how its funding is going to be given out for public media. It could be used also by NGOs that are giving grants to smaller media organizations all around the world. Ultimately, it could be incorporated into the algorithms of digital platforms, like Google and Facebook, so that they give a little more weight to authentic journalism and a little less weight to clickbait and fake news.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's very interesting to me. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

At this juncture, allow me to thank our two panellists for their incredibly thoughtful and informative testimony and for answering questions from the members. We're very grateful.

Now we will suspend for a couple of minutes to go in camera for committee business.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

On a point of order, I think it is appropriate to do the election of vice-chair in the full meeting because normally we are open in meetings like that.

If you wanted to do that, I would love to hear a speech, maybe lengthy, from the nominee or nominees. If it's going to be a big contest, I think it would be very good to hear an appropriate speech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Do you really want us not to go in camera?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I think we should do this in public, because it's kind of fun.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Absolutely.

Can we dispense with the speech, though?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I said “an appropriate speech”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Absolutely. For the first item on our agenda, we will keep it public.

Now I will turn to the clerk so she can take us through this process.

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will now open the floor to nominations for the position of vice-chair.

Mr. Viersen.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

I would like to nominate Michael Cooper for the position of vice-chair.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Cooper has been nominated by Mr. Viersen be elected as vice-chair of the subcommittee.

Are there any further nominations?

Is it the pleasure of the subcommittee to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Clerk]

I declare Mr. Cooper duly elected as vice-chair of the subcommittee.

I will turn it back to you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Congratulations, Mr. Cooper.

Now we will turn to the second item, and we will go in camera for this.

[Proceedings continue in camera]