Evidence of meeting #56 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was uae.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
Now I invite Mr. Johns to take the floor for five minutes, please.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you both again for your really important testimony today.
Mr. Diamond, you talked about the resettlement program and the number of people who are in the resettlement program compared to that of Ukraine. You also talked about barriers in terms of the requirements and the thresholds. Can you speak about what those barriers look like, what needs to change in terms of the existing number of people, and why the government may have such a low number compared to that of Ukraine, this discrimination that we're seeing?
Senior Legal Counsel, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
I think you said it. Unfortunately, it's kind of insidiously motivated by that. I can't really think of any other explanation. For the Ukraine program, there were no eligibility or financial requirements, nor any cap for the duration of the war. So, it's not a question of whether or not.... There's an ability to do that, and the precedent is there. That's all I'll say about that.
I also want to say, in terms of how Canada can lead, that it is strange that only four of the entities related to Sudan have been sanctioned. How is that possible, if the U.S. has sanctioned over 10 entities that Canada hasn't yet sanctioned?
Canada has also played a role at the ICJ. It's leading two cases there against Afghanistan and Iran for the downing of PS752. These are efforts that Canada.... You need a state to bring a case to the International Court of Justice, and that will really raise the profile of the Sudanese conflict and then initiate a process of accountability at the international level. We are willing to work with you on this.
I just want to say that Canada is very well placed and has experience in this area, and we're ready to work with Canada.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Last week, at the UN General Assembly, the European Union and several countries stepped forward with additional funding commitments to address the humanitarian needs in Sudan. Canada failed to do the same. There were also calls for those within the international community to push for diplomatic solutions to this crisis.
How can Canada take more of a leadership role in delivering humanitarian aid to people in Sudan and in negotiating diplomatic solutions?
I'll go to you, Ms. Langlois.
Executive Director, Amnistie internationale Canada francophone
Canada must act in accordance with its rhetoric. On the international stage, Canada has a very strong rhetoric on human rights and humanitarian law. However, that rhetoric does not always translate into action.
Therefore, Canada must play its role. It has done so in the past, it has been said—I repeat it here—and it can and must do so again.
Senior Legal Counsel, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
No. I just think it's very clear that more can be done. You cited all the statistics. There's no limit to what Canada can do in terms of increasing its humanitarian.... I'm not a development expert, though. My expertise really lies in the accountability at the international, regional and domestic levels.
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Our critic for foreign affairs, Heather McPherson, wrote a letter calling on Canada to “impose sanctions immediately on those responsible for violations of international law and human rights.” This was a year ago. She asked Canada to:
Call on Sudanese authorities to immediately surrender the suspects for whom there are outstanding arrest warrants...to the International Criminal Court;
Support and push for the expeditious issuance of arrest warrants by the ICC against those suspected of committing war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide....
Call on Sudanese authorities to immediately secure visas and unfettered access to areas of interest for staff of International Criminal Court's Office of the Prosecutor; and
Work to build support among international partners to push for a United Nations Security Council referral of the entire situation in Sudan to the International Criminal Court.
Can you give a grade on how Canada is doing, Mr. Diamond, in terms of a response to those requests that the NDP has made?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
We need a quick answer, please, Mr. Diamond. You have 20 seconds.
Senior Legal Counsel, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
I haven't really seen any progress on this front, but I want to add that the International Criminal Court is not the only form of accountability. I want to go back to the International Court of Justice as an opportunity for Canada to really take the lead, impose a cost and enforce a judgment, potentially, against the United Arab Emirates. Even bringing them to court is a matter of harming reputation and potentially putting enough pressure on them to exert their influence on the RSF to withdraw and end its atrocities in Darfur.
NDP
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
I would like to invite Ms. Vandenbeld to take the floor for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Thank you very much.
I want to thank both of the witnesses, and those who came before, for the very alarming testimony and for putting the spotlight on this. I think if Canadians knew more about it, they would want to do more.
I know Canada has already provided about $300 million in aid to Sudan and the surrounding area in the last two years. Our last budget has an additional $350 million for humanitarian aid.
Knowing that this is a human rights committee and it's not specifically dealing with development or some of the other recommendations, I noted in your opening remarks, Ms. Langlois, that you talked about the violations of international human rights and humanitarian laws, but because it's an internal conflict, you made the distinction in terms of the Geneva Convention and other kinds of international law.
I wonder if you and Mr. Diamond could specify which violations of international human rights laws are happening right now and what Canada can do to ensure that those violations stop.
Executive Director, Amnistie internationale Canada francophone
Thank you for your question.
Civilians are recklessly being singled out and targeted. Both parties to the conflict are positioning themselves in civilian areas to launch their attacks. So they put civilians at risk, and tens of thousands of civilians are being killed or injured.
We talked about sexual violence against women and girls, and there is also the fact that humanitarian aid is not getting through, since access is being blocked. Water or electricity infrastructure is also being targeted, which also affects civilian populations. All of these wrongdoings are condemned by international law, which also applies to a conflict such as the Sudanese conflict. Even if it is not a conflict between two states, which we would describe as an international conflict, that does not mean that the Geneva conventions and international law do not apply to it.
International law still applies to the conflict that is taking place within the borders of Sudan between the two belligerent forces on the territory.
Liberal
Senior Legal Counsel, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
In terms of what the international community has been able to do to stop those kinds of violations, historically, the International Criminal Court tried to issue an arrest warrant, for example, against al-Bashir. I just want to note that the traditional ways of doing things might have brought us to this point and are not necessarily the best forms of deterrent.
Concrete ways of stopping the violence may include blocking the flow of funding and finding out what the sources of their funding are. Where are they getting their military supplies? How are they able to continue these atrocities? That obviously will penalize them more than the threat of future prosecutions for violations or telling Sudan or RSF that they're violating human rights.
When we're speaking of genocide and mass atrocity crimes, I think we share the same goal, but I'm not quite sure if traditional ways of looking at it are the best ways to go about it.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
One of the other questions I have for you, Mr. Diamond, is regarding the Arms Trade Treaty. The enabling legislation in Canada specifies that the minister must not allow an export permit if there is “a substantial risk” in one of the listed areas. I believe there was actually an amendment in the foreign affairs committee to say “must” instead of “may”.
Could you clarify what might be done differently, given that right now, under law, it would actually be illegal to allow that kind of export permit?
Senior Legal Counsel, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
That seems like an opaque way of enforcing this sort of law. I'm not exactly sure how the assessment or evaluation works and whether it's transparent or not, but I certainly believe Parliament can ask, request and demand that all these exports be reviewed against the risks that are now known of where these weapons can end up.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Mr. Diamond, you also mentioned, I think, 10 other entities or individuals who have been sanctioned by other countries like the U.S. You were going to submit that to this committee. Could you submit those names? Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that here?
Senior Legal Counsel, Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights
Absolutely. Some of these companies are controlling business interests of the RSF from the UAE or have sent vehicles armed with machine guns. These are key entities that Canada has yet to sanction, and I look forward to submitting those names.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I noticed that you mentioned countries like Russia and China, but you also mentioned Serbia. What is the nature of what Serbia is doing in this regard? I can't remember if it was you or Ms. Langlois who mentioned that.
Go ahead, Ms. Langlois.
Executive Director, Amnistie internationale Canada francophone
I was the one who mentioned that. Serbia and China—
Executive Director, Amnistie internationale Canada francophone
—are two of the states that are sending arms to Sudan, even though they have signed the Arms Trade Treaty. So they are in breach of their own obligations.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you, Ms. Langlois.
I now invite Mr. Genuis to take the floor for five minutes.