Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of the witnesses for appearing today.

We talked a lot about the UAE, but I want to talk a bit about Russia.

I read a report called “The Blood Gold Report”. It's about how Russia, through the Wagner Group, has raised $2.5 billion U.S. from trade in African gold since it invaded Ukraine in February 2022. It says:

In Sudan, “the Russian company” controls a major refinery that has allowed Wagner to become the dominant buyer of unprocessed Sudanese gold, with multiple accounts of Russian military transport planes shipping processed gold out of the country.

Does either of you want to speak about that, and the influence the Wagner Group is having in Sudan?

Mr. Diamond, I see you shaking your head. Go ahead.

[Yonah Diamond]

I believe Amnesty International also identified Russia. This is not something I've personally been involved in investigating, but we have heard in our discussions that the same way Russia has continued to wade through the sanctions by the international community.... Part of that is the gold trade. Countries like Russia and the UAE are aligning themselves in a way so that they can weather these storms. It's really important to track and try to target those networks that are operating in the shadows, smuggling underneath the scrutiny of international mechanisms.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Madame Langlois, do you want to comment as well?

[France-Isabelle Langlois]

I don't have much to add, other than that Russia is helping arm the belligerent forces in Sudan.

What you are suggesting is very plausible, but it is far beyond my area of expertise. I don't have any specific information about Amnesty's reports on that.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Human Rights Watch indicated that the signing of the Juba peace agreement in October 2020 between Sudan's transitional government and the country's rebel groups “paradoxically gave rise to new armed group recruitment in Darfur.”

How can the international community support and foster conditions for peace that do not unintentionally result in the entrenchment of violence?

I'll turn to Madame Langlois, if that's okay.

[France-Isabelle Langlois]

Once again, that's big question.

There is no magic formula. We need to do everything we can to ensure that international law, humanitarian law, diplomacy and negotiations are respected, and to make the best possible use of the existing international system, even though it is unfortunately in a very bad state at the moment.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Diamond, do you want to add anything?

[Yonah Diamond]

That's a really excellent question, and it's a very difficult one.

There's an interplay, but the need to protect civilians needs to be top of mind and guiding the discussions, because there's no end in sight to the war. We can't really discuss what the future of Sudan will look like until the warring parties can no longer receive the supplies they need and they cease fighting, and until the civilians receive the protection they need from an international monitoring force or mechanism.

The focus really can't be on that yet, but it has to be on how the international community can intervene to stop the violence.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I think I have only 15 seconds left, so I'll give them back to the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Damoff.

Now I would like to invite Mr. Majumdar to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If colleagues agree, I wouldn't mind taking a bit of a step back from the specific conflict and its contours in Sudan and taking a broader perspective.

Commentary opened up this discussion by describing 12 million people potentially dying from starvation, making this the biggest refugee crisis and the biggest starvation crisis of this century, and perhaps even in history. It deserves deep attention. Should the international conversation not be more affected by what we are seeing happen in this crisis in Sudan?

To our guests from both Amnesty International and Raoul Wallenberg, can you try to explain, from your perspective, why, despite your advocacy, your research, your policy recommendations and your appeals to governments around the world, this crisis is not getting the attention it deserves?

[France-Isabelle Langlois]

Thank you.

That's a very good question. Again, it's a very broad question.

Unfortunately, the conflict in Sudan is not the only humanitarian crisis that is not receiving the attention it should.

The reason is that the international system is broken. The United Nations is broken, the UN Security Council is broken because it is too politicized. It always has been, but it used to be more balanced. Now the decision-making parties at the UN General Assembly and at the UN Security Council no longer care about the balance of humanitarian law because it doesn't work for them anymore. Every state uses its veto as soon as something does not suit it. You can think of China, you can think of Russia, but you can also think of the United States.

The system is broken, and that's why everything becomes politicized and our attention goes elsewhere. Meanwhile, states on the Security Council are fuelling conflicts around the world, while we have our backs turned, while the spotlight, the cameras, the media are not shining a light on these conflicts.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you.

[France-Isabelle Langlois]

We need to work on fixing the UN system.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I appreciate that perspective on how the UN system is broken and is failing the people of Sudan.

Perhaps our witness from the Raoul Wallenberg Centre could spend some time describing why it is that the major media have not been appropriately giving the kind of attention that this crisis warrants.

[Yonah Diamond]

I think that's the ultimate question, and a very painful one to think about.

I just want to add, regarding the Wagner Group, that the Raoul Wallenberg Centre did submit a comprehensive sanctions filing with the government that included the Wagner Group. Unfortunately, the government didn't respond in a timely enough fashion. I want to put in there a recommendation to take these recommendations and to have quicker processing times for our sanction recommendations, because often the companies that are suggested to be sanctioned can switch hands, liquidate and evade accountability.

I also want to say, regarding the peace agreement question, that, in the past, the peace agreement has been bilateral, so any future agreement really needs to be comprehensive and inclusive of all parties, including those who have been historically marginalized and oppressed in Darfur; otherwise, it will continue to breed resentment and a kind of neglect.

In terms of the lack of attention, there's really no explanation for it, other than a dereliction of duty by everyone in any form of power or anyone who has a platform. There's also a lot of inaccurate information and a failure to even document basic information about Sudan.

There's no way to explain it other than a failure.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Majumdar.

Now I invite Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do think that everyone around the table and the witnesses who are with us today share the same frustration over this conflict being completely under the radar, despite the fact that it is currently the conflict that has the greatest potential for death, if only in terms of famine.

We just had a discussion. I just heard your answers, namely that the UN, the United Nations, is broken, that the media attention is not there, that it is being directed to the Middle East, to Ukraine, to Russia.

Mr. Diamond, is the African Union's position on this matter known right now?

[Yonah Diamond]

That's a good question. The African Union has a special adviser on the prevention of genocide, who is very committed to this. I spent some time at the African Union meeting with missions earlier this year. To be honest, a lot of African countries are looking to have a synergistic, collaborative approach with the U.K., the U.S., Canada and others. We're looking to each other to lead on this, because the African Union can't do this alone.

There are a lot of other constraints affecting the AU, but they've had some calls for outlining the need for a mechanism for the protection of civilians, and they're calling out external actors as clearly involved in the conflict, but we've yet to see it move past that phase to become something concrete and something that will be provided by states in the region. The AU can certainly continue to play a role, but it has to be an international effort as well.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I was recently in Kenya and Rwanda on a mission. The growing presence of China and the Chinese Communist Party is evident.

Ms. Langlois, you just talked about the European Union. In the current conflict, are Chinese interests also present behind the scenes in this conflict, since it is an African conflict?

[France-Isabelle Langlois]

China is one of the main countries currently arming Sudan. Global geopolitics is at the heart of a conflict such as the one in Sudan and most other conflicts.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

That's kind of what I was getting at; meanwhile, humanitarian aid is not getting there.

Sudan was probably already one of the places with the highest child malnutrition rate in the world before the conflict began. It was already estimated that 600,000 children were malnourished.

Right now, I would say that the major international players are playing Risk with Sudan, if I may use that expression.

All you're asking for—and this is the message I'm hearing today—is that these actors facilitate the entry of humanitarian aid and impose an arms embargo as an absolute must. If that were done, there may be some hope.

Did I understand you correctly?

[France-Isabelle Langlois]

The short answer is yes.

I think states like Canada really need to play their part in ensuring that the rules of the game and humanitarian law are respected and that humanitarian aid gets to civilians. Civilians must be protected.

I want to reiterate that both parties to the conflict are currently committing war crimes, and probably crimes against humanity.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Mr.—