Evidence of meeting #57 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was venezuelan.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
On that point of order, we would give unanimous consent for that to be tabled, if the government wants....
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
It's not a point of order.
If Mr. Lake wants to ask for that in his questions, Chair.... That's not a point of order for Mr. Majumdar.
Liberal
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
If the Liberal members want to give unanimous consent for a statement from the committee that encourages the government to table that document Mr. Majumdar was referring to, we would give our unanimous consent for that.
Liberal
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. It's a real point of order this time.
In my opinion, the last three points of order were not well founded. I'll ask the clerk to comment on that.
We are currently debating, and I would like us to continue, out of respect for the witnesses. We can argue afterwards.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
I agree.
Mr. Lake [Technical difficulty—Editor] others gave their consent to be...the way he asked the question.
Do you agree with him, yes or no?
Okay. There's no unanimous consent. I'm sorry.
You have a few seconds.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
I'm good now. I don't think I can get what I want to say in—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, you have the floor.
Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for five minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm sorry our guests witnessed what just took place. However, rest assured that I will not engage in partisan politics during my remaining five minutes.
My next question is for both witnesses.
Earlier, you talked about international measures that could help the cause of the Venezuelan people. In November 2021, the International Criminal Court launched an investigation into the situation in Venezuela. Amnesty International recently stated that the events following the July 2024 presidential election were within the scope of the prosecutor's investigation.
What do you see as the potential value of the International Criminal Court's investigation into human rights violations in Venezuela?
Senior Research Fellow, Democracy Tech Initiative, Atlantic Council, As an Individual
For the people of Venezuela—more than 20 million—the case on human rights violations and crimes against humanity at the International Criminal Court is extraordinarily important. It is important for the dignity of the people of Venezuela and for human rights. It's not only for Venezuelans but also for anybody experiencing abuse or repression under any authoritarian government in the world.
We are grateful to all the countries that are supporting this investigation, as well as to those who requested the opening of the investigation and those who have been supporting it all the way, such as Venezuelan activists, political activists, human rights activists, digital rights activists, researchers and all the communities working on these issues. It's very helpful.
The International Criminal Court will advance this case, set a precedent and give a fair assessment of what's happening in Venezuela. The people in the chain of command who are responsible for the massive human rights violations in the country will be prosecuted for those. However, that is a different situation. The general situation is that the country is suffering, but that's separate from the electoral situation. Those two things can continue to cause, at different levels and in different moments....
The ICC case has some procedures. We want to respect that, but the electoral situation is urgent. The elections were in July and the new president has to take office in January. That is a different issue, a more political issue, different from the human rights issue, although they are related.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Yes, I understand. Perhaps I misspoke.
In fact, what Amnesty International said was that events following the 2024 presidential election could be incorporated into the current International Criminal Court investigation into human rights violations that has been ongoing since 2021.
I didn't want to interrupt you, but I wanted to clarify what I said.
Senior Research Fellow, Democracy Tech Initiative, Atlantic Council, As an Individual
Yes, it's true. There are similar patterns of violations. There are similar patterns of arbitrary detentions and similar patterns of enforced disappearances. In that sense, repression as violations can be integrated into that. I'm not sure whether the International Criminal Court will do that, but there are similar patterns. You're right about that.
Director, ProboxVE
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
To add to what Iria was saying, I think there's a public registry of the violations of human rights. It's very clear at this stage. The implementation of technology is to basically persecute dissidents, but not only political dissidents. It is to broaden persecution to vulnerable groups as well—women, indigenous people, minors and so on.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I have only 10 seconds left.
[Member spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
I'd like to say thank you very much to the witnesses. I hope the future will be better.
Thank you.
Liberal
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
I want to follow up on the intervention we just heard with regard to women and vulnerable populations. I'll go to witness Marin first.
I'd like to ask about the literacy rates for women versus men in Venezuela and also the labour force participation. I understand that there are some differences there. I'm interested in knowing how the lack of access to digital information and the lack of communication over digital channels would affect women differently from men, just based on their labour force participation.
Director, ProboxVE
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
Prior to the primary elections, we carried out a study in Venezuela. We showed that the female candidates received 60% more attacks. They were gender-based attacks. In fact, most of the attacks that female opposition politicians in Venezuela receive have more to do with their gender than their political positions. It tells us a lot about how far behind we are in the debate on protecting human rights when today people are being attacked on the basis of their gender, or when we consider that out of the people detained in Venezuela, and in fact out of people who are participating in the protests in Venezuela, the majority are women. This is often because women have continued to resist when men have had to go into exile or to work. Many men have gone, for example, to Colombia to support their families in Venezuela. These women are currently ensuring that they continue to carry the family burdens while the men are absent. They're also continuing to face these threats and attacks.
Again, it's mainly women, but another aspect is youth. Something that's very innovative about all of this is that youth are once more getting involved in politics in Venezuela after being disconnected for some time. There are also other vulnerable groups, such as indigenous Venezuelans. Right now, repression is occurring not only in the capital. We know more about what's happening in the capital, but what's happening in the interior is much worse. That's not to mention border regions, where military and paramilitary control and repression are much greater.
I don't know if that entirely answers your question.
NDP
Bonita Zarrillo NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you so much.
It makes me think about another question.
How does the digital oppression—or that oppression that happens digitally or those attacks that happen digitally—whether it's on social media for gender-based violence...? If it manifests in the street, is it more dangerous for women and girls to go to work, to go to school, to be out on the street? Is it more dangerous for youth to be out on the streets going to work? I'm wondering how that's manifesting on the ground.
Director, ProboxVE
[Witness spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]
It may be making us more vulnerable in areas like privacy, access to information and our devices. In addition, the consequences for women of arbitrary detention.... They are more likely to be sexually assaulted by the repressive organizations. Unfortunately, this is something that affects women more than men, although that doesn't mean that men have not also been victims of sexual violence, which is also deeply concerning. However, the proportion of sexual assaults that affect women is higher.
In fact, in certain cases, sexual violence is inflicted on women who are the partners of political leaders in order to manipulate them. It's a way to psychologically manipulate these women's partners. We also saw that with certain figures' daughters, who may also have been assaulted or harassed, with the goal being to force people who are being detained to give confessions.