Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 8th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I call this meeting to order.

I would like to welcome all members and all witnesses.

Witnesses will be given a maximum of five minutes for their remarks, after which we will proceed with a round of questions.

Welcome, Ms. Puyosa, Ms. Marin and Mr. Smolansky. I invite you to make your opening statement of up to five minutes each.

Colleagues, one of the witnesses, David Smolansky, will have to leave the meeting at 4:20. If you have specific questions for Mr. Smolansky, I invite you to ask them during the first two rounds of questions.

Mr. Smolansky, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[David Smolansky, Deputy Director, ConVzla Presidential Campaign]

Thank you, Chair and members of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Venezuela has reached its breaking point, testing the limits of civility, politics and diplomacy. On July 28, the country held a presidential election that both the United Nations and the Carter Center declared lacked transparency and integrity. Despite these adversities, democratic opposition candidate Edmundo González Urrutia won in a historic landslide, defeating Nicolás Maduro by nearly four million votes, the largest margin in Venezuelan history.

The democratic movement, led by María Corina Machado, who was illegally disqualified by the dictatorship from running for president after winning the opposition's primary a year ago, put on an epic performance during the July 28 election. We organized more than 600,000 people as witnesses and volunteers, who collected, preserved and published the voting records for the world to see.

This unprecedented display of civil resistance in the face of authoritarian regimes has inspired many pro-democracy movements around the globe. This effort exposed the extensive fraud orchestrated by the regime-controlled electoral council and supreme court. We won, and we have proven it. The regime knows it, and the international community knows it as well.

If the criminal regime remains in power, a wave of migration and regional instability are inevitable. Neutrality is not an option; it is complicity. The leaders of the regime must face individual sanctions, and the International Criminal Court must move forward with issuing an arrest warrant for crimes against humanity.

The Venezuelan people have shown immense bravery by overwhelmingly voting for change, despite relentless repression. As a call to action, I urge the recognition of Edmundo González as the president-elect of Venezuela. It is essential to implement individual sanctions against those responsible for the election fraud and for the human rights violations, to shut down the regime's torture centres and to work with partners in the region and beyond to tackle the narcotics activities emanating from Venezuela.

I have recent data here that I wanted to show, but I have a technical problem.

Two months after the election, security forces and non-state armed groups loyal to the regime have killed 27 people and carried out more than 2,000 illegal detentions. Among the detained are at least 107 teenagers and 216 women, with numerous reports of brutal torture. Children have been tortured with punches and electric shocks, while women have faced sexual abuse in common jails. The regime's security forces have also launched a “knock-knock operation”, going door to door after thousands of volunteers and after leaders of the democratic movement.

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has stated that the regime is engaging in a state of terrorism, while the UN fact-finding mission has reported that Venezuela has reached unprecedented levels of repression. According to some NGOs and official figures, tens of thousands of Venezuelans have fled the country since July 28, adding to the eight million Venezuelans who have already left. The refugee crisis now surpasses the displacement of people from Syria and Ukraine.

The Venezuelan humanitarian crisis is the most severe in the western hemisphere. According to the World Food Programme, 9.3 million Venezuelans cannot eat three times a day, making it the largest population in this condition in the region and the fourth largest globally, compared only with countries like Yemen, Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Meanwhile, according to Transparency International, 21% of Venezuela's economy is driven by illicit activities, such as drug trafficking, mining and human trafficking.

The regime's survival has been made possible by the support of Cuba, Russia, China and Iran. Cuba has provided critical expertise in repression, Russia has supplied military backing, China has provided technology for social control, and Iran has assisted in evading sanctions and bolstering counter-intelligence operations.

Again, neutrality is not an option. That is complicity. We urge the international community to act before it is too late.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Smolansky.

Colleagues, does anyone have any specific questions? Our guest has to leave soon, so we are not going in order.

Mr. Majumdar.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you very much.

David, it's very good to see you. Thank you for taking some time to be at committee today to share your views.

You were on the presidential campaign for Edmundo González, the individual who everybody recognizes won the election, except for those in the Maduro regime. The Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has failed to denounce Venezuela's sham election and Maduro's authoritarian regime.

From your perspective, how did this happen?

[David Smolansky]

As I said in my remarks, we are asking the Government of Canada and the international community in general to recognize Edmundo González Urrutia as the president-elect of Venezuela. This action will respect what the majority of Venezuelans said in the July 28 presidential election. At the same time, it will respect what our constitution says. The Venezuelan constitution says that, when you have a presidential election with different candidates participating, the candidate with most of the votes becomes the president-elect. After that, on January 10, he starts the administration.

An action that will help a lot in this epic effort that millions of Venezuelans have made this year is to recognize president-elect Edmundo González Urrutia and—if I may add—protect the integrity of María Corina Machado, who is in Venezuela fearing persecution by the regime. Recently, just a few days ago, members of her team, specifically her security team, were kidnapped by security forces in the regime. Members of the campaign, as we speak, have refugee status in the Argentine embassy, where they have been for more than 200 days.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Mr. Johns, go ahead, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you so much for your testimony.

You talked about the International Criminal Court investigation that's been opened up. Can you talk about the importance of that ICC investigation and its potential value in addressing human rights violations? Also, what alternative mechanisms should be considered to address the ongoing situation in Venezuela, beyond the International Criminal Court investigation?

[David Smolansky]

There has been an ongoing investigation at the International Criminal Court for more than five years. I have to express my gratitude that Canada was one of the first countries to support that investigation in 2019, when it started, along with others in Latin America and the Caribbean.

The investigation is against different members of the regime who, according to almost 10,000 victims, have committed or ordered crimes against humanity. The different types of crimes are despicable. As I said in my remarks, right now there are at least 107 teenagers who have been detained since July 28. As we speak, 64 remain in jail. Most of them are in common jails. Children have been tortured with electric shocks and punches. Also, we have innocent women—part of the democratic movement—who have been illegally detained and sexually abused. There are different political leaders who are, right now, also illegally detained in the biggest torture jail in Latin America and the Caribbean, El Helicoide.

That is why it is important for Attorney Khan and the International Criminal Court to speed up the investigation and issue arrest warrants against those responsible for ordering or committing crimes against humanity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Alexis, go ahead, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

[Member spoke in Spanish, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Smolansky. I am pleased to meet you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Smolansky, I think the world is closely watching everything that's happening in Venezuela. International political pressure may not be as strong as it should be.

I think my colleague Mr. Majumdar spoke just before me about what Canada could do.

I have two questions for you.

First, how much can Canada do? Are you asking Canada to impose sanctions, for example, on the regime's leaders? Can it do that?

Secondly, I'd like you to give us a picture of the extent of corruption in Venezuela, including within the judiciary.

How pervasive is corruption among judges, and how important is that politically?

Thank you, Mr. Smolansky.

[David Smolansky]

Thank you so much for your questions.

Regarding the first question, yes, as I said in my remarks, it is important that Canada implement individual sanctions against those in Venezuela who are responsible for committing crimes against humanity, violating human rights and being involved in drug trafficking, illegal mining and human trafficking, and also those who are responsible for corruption and money laundering. Venezuela, according to Transparency International, is one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

As I also said in my remarks, at least 21% of the economy in Venezuela today is driven by illicit activities, which is really striking when you consider that Venezuela is the country with the largest proven oil reserves in the world. I have to say that Venezuela is not producing oil, not because of the sanctions, but because of corruption. Your question is very accurate. Venezuela used to produce 3.2 million barrels of oil a day when Chávez came to power 25 years ago. When sanctions were implemented five years ago, Venezuela was already producing only one million barrels of oil a day, so the oil company was already in shatters. By the way, those sanctions were lifted a year ago, with the compromise from the regime to recognize the results of the presidential election. But you see what is going on. They have not recognized it yet, even though we have proven that we won.

According to different scholars, it is estimated that in Venezuela during these 25 years, at least $300 billion was stolen. Obviously, that scheme of corruption has involved important members of the judicial system, including judges and someone who has a very important role now, Attorney General Tarek William Saab, the one who is also ordering illegal detentions on a daily basis.

If I may—I'm sorry if this answer is taking longer—we need to understand that corruption in Venezuela is not as you might see it in other parts, because Venezuela is now run a lot on illicit activities. I would like to, in this case, raise awareness of the drug trafficking that is coming from Venezuela. A lot of the cocaine that is produced in Colombia, Bolivia and Peru goes through Venezuela and ends up in the Caribbean or Europe.

This situation—the illicit activities, the violations of human rights, the crimes against humanity, the brutal persecutions against the population—has created the largest migration and refugee crisis in the world right now. Eight million people have fled Venezuela, which is more people than have fled Ukraine and Syria.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

I would just like to mention that we have exceeded 10 minutes with our esteemed witness. We can either stop or continue. It's up to the committee entirely.

[David Smolansky]

I have time to continue, Chair.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In my opinion, Mr. Chair, we should continue the conversation with Mr. Smolansky, without wishing to take time away from the other witnesses. We have two witnesses whom we can question during the last hour of the meeting. Mr. Smolansky has considerable experience with Venezuela. I wish he could spend a few more minutes with us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Okay, we will continue.

We have Ms. Damoff, please.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for being with us today.

I want to correct something my Conservative colleague said, that the PM didn't say anything about the election. Minister Joly put out a statement on September 9 condemning what was happening in Venezuela. I just want to get that on the record.

You and your family have lived with persecution in Venezuela for generations now. I appreciate your coming, and I appreciate the work that you've been doing for your home country. It's really quite horrible, and Canadians aren't paying attention to what's happening in Venezuela, which is also an issue. I appreciate your being here to shine a spotlight on it.

I was in Costa Rica this summer and went to a migrant shelter. All the families I met there were from Venezuela and had travelled through the Darién Gap, many of them losing loved ones as they came through there. They had left because of the absolutely horrific conditions that exist in Venezuela.

I wonder if you could talk a bit more about the migrant crisis and what Canada can do, in terms of what's happening, to assist people who are being forced to leave Venezuela.

[David Smolansky]

Thank you so much, distinguished member of the subcommittee, for your words and your question.

I had the opportunity, before being in this role, to work at the Organization of American States for five years to address the Venezuelan migration and refugee crisis. I had the opportunity to visit more than 11 countries across the region, including Canada. That was between 2018 and 2023.

As of the moment of this hearing, there are eight million Venezuelan migrants and refugees, as I said earlier. It's the largest migration crisis in the world, surpassing that of Ukraine, which has been facing a brutal invasion since 2022, and surpassing that of Syria, which has been in a civil conflict for more than a decade. Three million of those eight million are in Colombia, 1.2 million are in the U.S., 1.5 million are in Peru, and approximately 500,000 are in Brazil, Chile and Ecuador—there are 500,000 Venezuelans in each of those countries.

However, it goes beyond that. There are 220,000 Venezuelans in Argentina, 150,000 in Mexico, 120,000 in Panama, more than 120,000 in the Dominican Republic, and approximately 50,000 in Trinidad and Tobago—that is already about 4% of the population. Also, approximately 30,000 Venezuelans are in the ABC islands—Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao.

One of my main concerns is that if Maduro prevails by force, more people are going to flee. Some organizations are predicting that this migration outflow could jump from eight million to 10 million by 2025. Last year was the year when the most Venezuelans crossed the Darién Gap—350,000. By the way, some of them entered Canada after crossing into the United States.

It is important to understand that the only solution to stop Venezuelans from fleeing their own country is to restore democracy and freedom in Venezuela. People are not fleeing for any other reason. The only reason people are fleeing the country is that they're facing a brutal dictatorship. People are fleeing because of human rights violations, lack of electricity, lack of water, hyperinflation, shortages of food, shortages of medicine, and crime.

I would respectfully ask the members of this subcommittee to implement any efforts you can to protect Venezuelan migrants and refugees, and to integrate them into Canada, not deport them. When Venezuelans are deported to their own country, they face severe harassment and threats once they get there. I respectfully ask this subcommittee to promote policies to protect and integrate the Venezuelan migrants arriving in Canada.

We are not leaving our country because we want to. We have fled the country because we didn't have any other option.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Majumdar, you have the floor.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

David, thank you for describing the scale of what we're dealing with: eight million displaced and $300 billion stolen by the socialist thugs of Maduro. I have tremendous Venezuelan neighbours in southwest Calgary, who have been anxious about their own families and about the technologies Maduro has been using to control the people through cellphone apps, access to information and censorship.

You know, I think of Ottawa as a place that could be a capital in the world that has courage when it comes to these issues. However, to my Liberal colleague's point earlier, I don't think Ottawa has shown up as a voice of courage or moral leadership when it comes to standing alongside the people of Venezuela, especially when our American partners—with their clear perspective on the values of our region, and their clear security interests for our own continent—are out of sync with what Ottawa is putting out.

Let me come back to the deplorable dictatorship Venezuela is dealing with. To your knowledge, what kind of partnership does this deplorable, despotic, socialist thug regime have with other ones, such as Iran, Russia or Cuba?

[David Smolansky]

Thank you very much for the question, distinguished member of the subcommittee.

I would say that Maduro's regime has four strong allies at this moment. It could be more, but the four are the main pillars to keep it in power. One is Cuba, which has been there from day one. For 25 years, we have had thousands of Cubans in Venezuela who have served as intel and counter-intel agents. There are bilateral agreements between Cuba and Venezuela.

Something very powerful is that the fact-finding mission of the United Nations released a report—if I'm not wrong, it was a year or two ago—which said that, according to victims, Cuban agents advise and participate in tortures in Venezuela.

The presence of Cuban agents has been felt after July 28 with this knock-knock operation—in Spanish, “Operación Tun Tun”—which is basically having agents of the security forces knocking on your door and looking for you. Some of the people who have been illegally detained are victims of neighbours who have told that those people have participated in the democratic movement. It's the same methodology that Fidel Castro invented in Cuba with the comité de defensa de la revolución, the CDR, a revolutionary defence committee. Hundreds of Venezuelans have been illegally detained since July 28 through that methodology.

I have to add that Diosdado Cabello, who is individually sanctioned, not only in the U.S. but also in Canada and the European Union, for drug trafficking and using money from drug trafficking to finance terrorist activities with the ELN and the FARC dissidents, has been appointed as the so-called “minister of justice and peace”.

That is why the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has stated that in Venezuela, there is a state of terrorism, and that is why the fact-finding mission of the United Nations has said that Venezuelans are living in unprecedented levels of repression.

Beyond Cuba, it's also Russia. When Chávez was alive, he invested at least $12 billion in buying military equipment from Russia. It is said that apparently members of the Wagner Group are in Venezuela, specifically in the southeast of Venezuela, with the role of taking care of gold mines, oil refineries and gas fields.

Iran is also helping the regime, or helped the regime in the past, to evade sanctions. The regime started to buy fuel from Iran—again, ironically, when we have the largest oil reserve in the world. Also, there are—and this is very frightening—bilateral agreements with Iran on security, intelligence and counter-intelligence. There is a program run by the Revolutionary Guard of Iran that does capacity building with security agents of Venezuela.

Then there is China—this is the fourth one—which has provided technology for social control. The two Venezuelan colleagues who have been invited, who have done very good work on digital authoritarianism and misinformation, could explain the role of China in social media in Venezuela, where China has provided technology for social control, for example the technology to create a parallel ID for social control.

At the same time, China, through a company named Norinco, has provided equipment for repression. I was a direct victim in 2017, when I was still in Venezuela as a mayor, when I was repressed heavily for 100 consecutive days with others. Others were even killed with the equipment that the regime has been using during the last, at least, seven years.

I would say those are the four, but then we could add the regime of Nicaragua. For example, Nicaragua's regime has already offered to Maduro revolutionary fighters. That's what Ortega calls them, “revolutionary fighters”. They are—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Excuse me. Could you wrap it up, please? We still have two witnesses, and your time has expired.

[David Smolansky]

Yes. I'm sorry.

They are to be imported into Venezuela to defend the revolution. That's the reality we are facing at this moment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Smolansky, you covered a lot of ground. I wish you could stay with us for the next six hours, but that's not possible.

You discussed issues that are of great concern for us as well. We're talking about the migrant crisis, of course, but we're also talking a lot about transnational repression. I would like to know if you are aware of any transnational repression by the Government of Venezuela against Venezuelan nationals in various countries.