Evidence of meeting #58 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Generally speaking, refugees in the global south do not get citizenship. Unlike in Canada, they're always going to be a foreign national in that country—
Conservative
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
If they're internally displaced, they're then not refugees. They're internally displaced persons.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
They're forced migrants, I guess, in a sense, but not....
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Exactly, and because they're citizens, sometimes they'll just make their home in a new place, and as you say, they're no longer considered to be internally displaced.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
Okay, but it's still a refugee camp. It's still considered a refugee camp within the country they're from, right?
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It would be considered to be an internal displacement camp—
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
—not a refugee camp, but generally speaking, they're not going to continue to be in a camp. They'll move into longer-term housing and other kinds of permanent solutions.
Liberal
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Clark‑Kazak, for being with us today for this important study.
First of all, according to all your studies and expertise, which human rights are most violated when migrants move or end up in refugee camps?
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It depends on the legal status of the migrants. If they are internally displaced citizens, we tend to talk about rights such as the right to housing. However, if people are displaced at an international border, they are refugees and no longer citizens. In this case, all rights are violated, including the right to asylum, because there are countries, including Canada, that try to prevent people from availing themselves of this right.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
How does Canada do this? Do you have an example to give us?
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
The Safe Third Country Agreement is an example of a measure being used to prevent people from coming to Canada and then making an asylum claim.
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
This has been your field of expertise for a few years now. You've covered different conflicts, as well as different waves of migration, I imagine. Canada is neither a military power nor an economic power on a planetary scale. However, it does have a tradition of defending international human rights and promoting peace in the world. You're hearing this from a Quebec sovereignist, by the way.
Do you agree with me that Canada's image may have faded a little in recent years? Do you feel that Canada has less influence than it used to?
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
In terms of refugee resettlement, we've always done a good job. However, when it comes to asylum, I think our contribution is diminishing.
That said, I must still highlight the work Canada is doing to educate other countries about the asylum process, because we have to recognize that we have a good system here. We're in the process of educating other countries, particularly in Latin America, on this issue.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I'm going to ask you a question that's going to seem off-topic, since it deals with a situation that's taking place in the country, while we're talking about international human rights, but it also touches on international conventions.
Recently, there was a debate in Canada between certain politicians who were saying that we should move people who have already applied for asylum here and force them to settle in other Canadian provinces.
Wouldn't this contradict the international conventions Canada has signed?
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
This could violate some rights. We saw an example of this just before the Roxham Road closure. People had been turned back to the Maritimes, where there are very few lawyers to help them apply for asylum—
Bloc
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It's a possibility. It depends. However, what is clear is that everyone has freedom of movement. You can't stop someone from moving from one part of Canada to another. So even if you send people to Newfoundland and Labrador, for example, you can't stop them from coming back to Montreal or Ottawa.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Indeed.
We can encourage people to settle in certain places by taking positive measures, such as facilitating access to housing or employment, but we can't force them to do so. That's what I understand from your intervention.
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
All right.
You talked a lot about Ukraine in your opening remarks. Several migrant organizations have told me that the Ukrainian conflict may have overshadowed certain migratory crises. It got a lot of media attention, and a lot of aid and money was given to the Ukrainians, which was the right thing to do. Everyone agrees that we should help the Ukrainians in times of war, but some organizations have told me that this has obscured certain problematic situations, such as the camps for displaced people in the Democratic Republic of Congo, for example, which have existed for decades, as you said.
I almost have the impression that we're acting as if there are good and bad migrants. Some organizations have told me that, because of the Ukrainian conflict, there is less media attention given to other conflicts or to other displaced people on the planet.
Do you feel the same?
Professor, Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes. I must stress that all human beings have the same human rights. We have responded in very different ways to various displacement crises, whether in Ukraine, Congo, Sudan, Gaza or elsewhere. This is because immigration policies are influenced by domestic politics. In the case of Ukraine, there was still a political consensus that something had to be done.
I encourage you to have such a political consensus for other displacement crises, because we need to respond to those in Sudan and Congo too.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Right now, there's a fairly important migration route, at least in the news. It's the one that goes from Latin America or South America, and sometimes Brazil, up the Central American isthmus to Mexico, and then on to the United States.
Are you able to tell us what dangers migrants face when taking this route?
