Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2024

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Look, at the UNHCR you assess forced migration from a multitude of perspectives. It's okay to discuss how countries absorb and deal with those issues, whether it's in the global north, the global south or wherever it might be, but I think that absent an appreciation of where the source is, the prevention you've described as necessary to deal with this mass displacement of people—which, to your tune, has increased times two in 10 years—requires a better assessment as to why it's being accelerated in the way it is.

[Michael Casasola]

Well, I would say on that point that it's a question of the political will to find solutions to conflicts.

We've been obviously very concerned about the treatment of asylum seekers globally, in terms of state responses and whether states are using the weaponization of asylum, or somehow trying, as you say, to use it. I'm just not sure how to unpack that.

Certainly we are concerned about the treatment of refugees and asylum seekers globally, period. We're concerned about people continuing to have access to seek asylum and the principle of non-refoulement. These are important key principles. The previous speaker spoke about them.

As to whether or not newcomers are used as a particular tool, I can't really speak to that, but I can say that we are obviously very concerned about the situation and the rising number of forcibly displaced persons and their treatment.

Do you want to say anything, Azadeh?

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

I do want to add that internationally we do look at protection issues that people of forcibly displaced populations are facing. If you look at our global trends report, it will give you a good indication of the protection issues that individual populations are facing.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I appreciate that.

On the question, the examples that come to mind that maybe I can say and that you maybe cannot are of how Russia flies displaced people from one region of the world to Minsk and then goes on to destabilize Poland in that way, which is documented by academics, UN personnel and others around the world as a means of doing so, and also how Turkey has been turning the pressure valve on and off by threatening migration into Europe to destabilize European Union systems.

Additionally, in the Americas, it's how the forced displacement of people is being used to destabilize our hemisphere alone, as colleagues have touched upon, through trafficking networks—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Majumdar.

Could we have a quick answer, please, in 25 seconds?

[Michael Casasola]

I also have to acknowledge, though, to be fair, that when you gave one of the examples as Turkey, Turkey hosts more refugees than any other country in the world. We need to recognize that some of these states do carry a tremendous amount of responsibility in that way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses once again for being with us today.

I imagine that your organization must foresee future conflicts or political situations that would bring an additional migrant crisis. Does your organization make such forecasts?

[Michael Casasola]

I don't think we do any public forecasting, but—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, I wasn't thinking of public forecasts, but internally, you have—

[Michael Casasola]

Absolutely. We have stockpiles of materials around the world so that when an emergency takes place, we'll be there. That's one of the benefits we have. While it can be challenging being a large organization, the benefit is that we are everywhere. We're in 100-plus countries.

We have a presence around the world and, as I said, there are stockpiles of relief items around the world so that we can respond when events take place, including when, for example, an earthquake has taken place and it affects the refugee population. Then we will help the refugee population and the local population with that assistance.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

There's a worrying situation that we don't hear enough about, unfortunately, and that I've been trying to raise for some time. You're probably aware of it.

Two weeks from now, there will be a very important election south of the Canadian border, in the United States. Right now, the candidates are neck and neck in the polls. One of the U.S. presidential candidates said that, if he took power, he would deport—that's the term he used—millions of people. The figure of 10 million people is often mentioned. Whether it's feasible or not, what's unfortunate is that he said it and that people feel targeted by it.

Are you prepared for the consequences of the victory of this candidate, whom I don't need to name?

As we know, there has been a massive influx of asylum seekers in recent years here in Canada. From what we're hearing from various organizations working on both sides of the border, if this person wins the election, the very next day there could be hundreds of thousands of people seeking protection and heading for the most developed country possible. Between you and me, that country is likely to be Canada.

Are you prepared for that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Please give a quick answer.

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] Canada as UNHCR, but we are here to support the government. If the government does have an increase in asylum claims for whatever reason, we're there to support them in addressing that increase.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Johns, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses again for the important work they're doing and for today's testimony.

Right now in Lebanon, it's estimated that there are nearly 200,000 migrant workers. Many are undocumented as well, as we're learning. Can you speak about the unique challenges migrant workers face during times of conflict, such as what's happening in Lebanon right now?

[Michael Casasola]

Thank you for drawing attention to the situation in Lebanon, where right now already about 1.2 million people have been displaced inside the country. Another 400,000-plus have crossed the border into Syria. About 70% of them are Syrians. The remaining are Lebanese and some other nationalities.

We're also in a situation of displacement for ourselves in that country—I mean, many of our staff have been displaced. We have had two staff members killed in Lebanon.

We are providing assistance to everyone in the country who's displaced. We are providing real and substantive.... We are the lead UN agency. Despite the challenges faced by our own staff, we're delivering services.

I can't speak to the specific situation of migrant workers. They're not under our mandate as an organization. They would be more the responsibility of the International Organization for Migration. They have rights. Unlike refugees, for assistance they could be expected to approach the embassy of the country from which they came.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you. I send my condolences to you and your colleagues and of course the families of those who have been killed in this terrible conflict.

Do you believe the Global Compact on Refugees and the Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration are achieving their goals? Perhaps you could identify some of the gaps that still need to be addressed in international policy, such as climate change, which you touched on a little bit earlier.

[Michael Casasola]

Thank you for the question. I can't comment on the global compact on migration, because I'm just not familiar with it. I'd have to refer it to the International Organization for Migration.

With regard to the Global Compact on Refugees, we are seeing results. We are seeing, as I mentioned earlier, new actors getting involved. It has managed to try to build support for the countries that are hosting most of the refugees. It's really encouraging to see the number of new pledges and the number of new states involved.

That said, obviously there's further we could go. Obviously, more could be done. In addition to the number of pledges, we have to ensure that states and other actors who made pledges—because they're not just states—fulfill those pledges. The first step is getting states to agree to take action and to provide additional assistance and such. The second is actually for that to be implemented.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Mr. Casasola, I would like to seize the opportunity to comment on something.

Lebanon is my native country. I would like you to be more vigilant in providing humanitarian aid and services. I come from northern Lebanon. In my small town in northern Lebanon, 85 families for three weeks now have received zero humanitarian aid. In many villages it's the same thing, so do not concentrate only on the city. Go to other parts of the country. Thank you.

I would like to thank both of you for being here and for your testimony. It was very interesting to hear you. If you'd like to share more information with the committee, you can always write to the clerk.

Thank you. We wish you all the best.

The meeting is adjourned.