Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Give a quick answer, please, because time has exceeded 25 seconds.

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

I'll just confirm that yes, we are aware that they are being used. We are aware of the situation, and we do speak to states about this issue on a very frequent basis. We do encourage co-operation between states to address these issues and to strengthen their own systems and their own rights-based approaches.

Of course, it's not always easy, but we are hoping that the situation over time, over the long term, will improve. It is definitely something that we are aware of.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Mr. Johns, you have the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

First, thank you so much for your testimony. I'm very grateful for the work you do and I commend you for the important work that you do.

I was very encouraged when you talked about refugees having a high success rate when it came to home ownership over the last 20 years, as your study revealed. However, we also know across Canada that many asylum seekers and refugees are living in shelters or hotels or are unhoused.

Do you believe that the federal government is providing adequate supports to displaced persons coming to Canada in terms of housing, health care and employment? Maybe you can talk a little bit about where we need to do better. As well, what is the impact of Canada's high cost of living when it comes to newcomers?

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

Canada is definitely a country that has a great integration model and a great reception model for a lot of displaced populations. Compared to other parts of the world, it definitely has a fairly high standard. However, like other countries around the world, Canada is seeing a very, very big housing crisis that it's trying to address, so it is not a surprise that asylum seekers are seeing an impact, and it is not a surprise at all that they are also impacted by the housing crisis.

There are things that Canada could look at and do better. There are always improvements that countries can make in terms of their reception. One example is that many countries in South America are looking at models that take employment opportunities for asylum seekers and try to move them to parts of the country where those employment opportunities exist, for instance. Those are interesting programs, because they lead to better settlement of asylum seekers, and asylum seekers also have a better opportunity to find housing on their own and to support themselves.

We do know that if a certain market is saturated in terms of having too many people in one city and you are looking at relocating them, you shouldn't just look at relocating them based on housing availability: You should look at relocating them based on employment availability and other services that would be available. That would be something that Canada could definitely look at.

However, compared to what exists around the world, Canada definitely has a very good system in terms of integration, settlement and services offered to displaced populations, not just asylum seekers and refugees. As a model, I think Canada has a lot of things it could teach other countries around the world, which it is doing, and we encourage it to do a lot more of that.

[Michael Casasola]

If I may add to Ms. Tamjeedi's last point, it's routine for governments from around the world to come and look at the Canadian integration model.

Also, Canadians wring their hands about whether we're doing a good enough job about it, but it's often seen as a model because of those outcomes, as I mentioned earlier, because it gets better for newcomers over time. The next generation doesn't just plateau but does better. We know right now, from the most recent Statistics Canada study that we've seen, that refugee children have a higher graduation rate from college, university and postgraduate studies than Canadian-born children. It doesn't mean they're smarter; it just means the system works.

If you give them access to opportunities, Canada benefits.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Would you agree, though, given the housing situation we're in right now, that there are areas where we can improve? Do you have some suggestions and thoughts on that?

In the last few years, we've certainly seen the housing crunch impact most communities in Canada. I imagine you might have seen different models around the world that Canada could look at to improve the situation.

[Michael Casasola]

I'll let Ms. Tamjeedi respond to some of the latter part with some ideas, but I want to acknowledge that this is a problem we're hearing about from everybody. This is a problem we're hearing about from all states. This is more of a global phenomenon that all countries are wrestling with.

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

It really depends on which populations you're referring to. If you're bringing in someone as a resettled refugee, they have access to different types of services versus an asylum seeker. I'll focus my comments on asylum seeker populations.

There are definitely different models globally. Certain countries have a reception centre model, for example, so when the asylum seeker is going through the asylum process, they will be housed in a reception centre where they have access to legal assistance, counsel, social services and information on how to find a job, work permits and things like that. It's all housed under one roof. Certain countries, particularly in Europe, prefer this model because they believe it assists the individual while they're going through their asylum process and allows them to better move on from a reception centre if they are accepted. Canada could consider looking at existing programs like that.

Other countries have models that focus on NGOs and rely on them to provide those services. They provide support and funding to those NGOs to provide services that are geared toward the specific needs of these populations.

It's not just one size fits all. You could also do combinations of those different models. I definitely invite Canada, if you have questions about that, to come to our organization. We have a vast array of information on the different models used globally, and there's always a mix-and-match of best practices that could be used.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I appreciate that.

There's an incredible group in my riding in the Comox Valley that has been welcoming Ukrainians, but it hasn't had any resources from the government, so it's almost all volunteer-based. It absolutely needs resources to give the Ukrainians who are here the best chance possible. There are opportunities, I believe.

In terms of what we can do to reduce the drivers of forced migration, can you speak a bit about that, especially in places where Canada plays a pivotal role? I think about Ethiopia, where we provide international development assistance. We have an influence.

Can you speak about what we can do and what role we can play in reducing the drivers of forced migration?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

You have a minute.

[Michael Casasola]

The first thing would be to address the root causes. We are a neutral organization. We must work on both sides of the border whenever there's a conflict. We work with the internally displaced, yet on the other side of the border, we're also working with the refugee population. However, we look to states to effectively address the causes of forced displacement.

There are some examples that Dr. Clark-Kazak referenced earlier that we could also be doing. On support for host communities in terms of integration, for example, if there's no need to set up an education system for refugees that is separate from the host population's education system, why not support the host population in allowing refugees to access it?

Also, we need to bring in new actors to help find these solutions, because at these unprecedented levels, we're looking now to the World Bank and private sector donations. In Canada, it's not just the Government of Canada. Canadians have been a key source of support for us as an organization. About two years ago, we reached $1 billion in donations from the private sector, which has been critically important to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Now I invite Mr. Ehsassi to take the floor for three minutes, please.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you also to the witnesses. Your testimony certainly has been very helpful.

I believe you were here in the room when we heard from the first witness that protocols are being developed in the EU to deal with the issue of trafficking when it comes to refugees. I was wondering if you're aware of those guidelines or protocols and whether there is any room to apply those very same practices to the Americas as well.

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

Since it is very specific, I will definitely get back to the committee on that question to provide the specific guidelines that we have in addressing situations of trafficked persons and the ones that are being developed by the EU. I'll do that in writing.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Okay. Thanks so much.

Ms. Tamjeedi, I understand you're an expert in setting up legal frameworks to deal with different streams of displaced people or refugees. In the system that we have in place, are those legal frameworks responsive to what we have been experiencing in terms of increased levels of refugees over the course of the past several years?

[Azadeh Tamjeedi]

I think it's important to look at the legal framework here. There's a vast array of responses that Canada employs, and my colleague can definitely talk about the resettlement and the complementary pathways types of programs.

When you're looking at asylum, Canada's system is fairly robust. It is a system that we often look to as an example to the world. It was developed with a certain number of claims in mind that we would receive a year, around 50,000 to 60,000 claims. The harder part right now is looking at how to make that system more flexible for the larger number of asylum claims that we are receiving.

That is possible to do within the current framework, and it is possible to look at things like differentiated case processing. This basically means treating different cases and files from different countries at a different rate. Let's say that if you have a case of Afghans who are coming and making asylum claims, you would process their cases much faster than you would process claims from people of a different nationality if their cases are more complex, for instance. That would help you address backlogs in the system.

There is a lot of work being done at the government level, and at UNHCR's level as well, to look at Canada's asylum system and see if it's flexible enough and if there are tweaks that could be made, and there are always improvements, I believe, that could be made on that side.

My colleague can speak on the resettlement and complementary pathways.

[Michael Casasola]

I just want—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Wrap it up, please.

[Michael Casasola]

Very quickly then, I would just say that Dr. Clark-Kazak mentioned the issue of the different responses that Canada has applied to different groups in terms of these additional special humanitarian initiatives.

I'll be honest and transparent with you: What's been really key for us is that it has not been at the expense of resettlement spaces. It has not been at the expense of those additional needs that I talked about earlier, and that's been really key for us.

I know that the government is working on its own crisis response framework to deal with some of these concerns, but for us, from our vantage point, it has not had the impact that we've seen in other countries that it has impacted, so we're grateful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Mr. Majumdar, you have three minutes. The floor is yours, please.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you for taking the time to give us such a comprehensive assessment.

I'd like to take a tack that is slightly different from my colleagues' approaches by looking more at the source of refugees.

Authoritarian regimes, as your colleague previously testified, play a role in generating a refugee crisis, whether it's internally displaced or internationally. In your perspective, where would you say authoritarian regimes have modernized their approach in weaponizing the displacement of people as a matter of their policy?

[Michael Casasola]

I'm not sure. As a UN agency, we have to work with all states regardless, so it's not for me to specifically refer to any particular state. As I mentioned earlier, we have to work on both sides of the border, both internally and externally. We work in a variety of different languages and cultures and needs and so on.

I'll be transparent with you. I'm not sure how to address that question. Obviously, we're always concerned that the rights and the protection of refugees be respected throughout. I guess that would also extend to migrants and other groups. Of course, they have rights as well. However, I'm not sure how to unpack that question. I'll be transparent.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Maybe instead of naming individual states, given the situation that the UNHCR has to operate within, let me ask broad questions.

Are authoritarian states weaponizing migration as a means to destabilize other regions?

[Michael Casasola]

Oh, I think that's much more of a question for an academic, who could give you much more of a perspective. I'm just saying it sounds suitable for comments from the Secretary-General or something.