Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Oct. 29th, 2024

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I'm going to turn my time to my colleague, MP Lake.

Thank you.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Just to follow up on that, actually—I'm interested in that—when you take a look at the overwhelming numbers that we've heard today, and you take the context of what you're saying and think about those who actually meet the standard, the truly most vulnerable people in the world. What is the cost to them of an inefficient bureaucratic system that isn't focused?

[Alexander Waxman]

It's huge amounts of waiting time. I've worked in India where some people can wait two or three years after an interview to see whether they have refugee status. India is one of the few countries that is a non-signatory to the refugee convention.

They're vulnerable to all kinds of exploitation within India. They can themselves become irregular movers. They can resort to smuggling, try their luck in another country or another situation, that sort of thing. That's a huge risk.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB]

I only have a short period of time.

Jason, I'd love to go to you, but I probably won't have time, so I'll stick with Alexander.

We've heard a few witnesses today talk about democracy and governance. In terms of keeping the number of migrants down, taking a look at where things are moving and where the potential hot spots are, I imagine future migration issues could be avoided by working with democratically elected governments like the one in Venezuela, supporting the legitimately elected folks in Venezuela—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I'm sorry, but the time is out, Mr. Lake.

[Alexander Waxman]

May I answer? Is there no room for an answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I'm sorry. We have passed the time. I have two others to pass it to.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for seven minutes.

I have to be fair to everyone.

[Alexander Waxman]

No problem. I'm a first-time participant. Thank you for schooling me.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You get used to it.

Dr. Nickerson, you focused on three crises in your presentation: Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Rohingya.

I'm not an expert like you. However, I get the impression that these three conflicts have something in common. From a Canadian perspective, there's funding for humanitarian assistance. For several years, the UN has been asking countries like Canada to invest up to 0.7% of their GDP in humanitarian aid. We're at 0.30% right now. That's less than what the Stephen Harper government invested, when the Liberals said that it had reduced the percentage of humanitarian aid.

Does it affect the work that Doctors Without Borders does on the ground?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

I'll answer in English.

There are a few points to make here.

The first is that we've heard several times today that humanitarian needs are extraordinarily high. I believe the UN estimate is that there are 300 million people in need of life-saving humanitarian assistance and who are covered by a humanitarian response plan. This impacts Médecins Sans Frontières in a number of different ways. The first is that we are responding to a very large number of humanitarian crises in roughly 70 different countries. We did 16.5 million outpatient consultations in our programs last year. The needs are very high.

On the humanitarian funding question specifically, I want to emphasize that we're a largely privately funded humanitarian organization. Canada is, in fact, one of only three government donors that we apply to for funding. We're largely privately funded, which allows us to respond very quickly when emergencies happen.

However, the fact of the matter is that the humanitarian system is stretched. There are huge needs that are going completely unmet. Some of that is an efficiency problem or other things. Some of it, very honestly, is simply a lack of funding. In the Rohingya crisis, for example, World Food Programme rations are down to $10 U.S. per person per month. There is simply a funding shortfall for many of the crises around the world.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, those numbers are scary. I'm glad to see that the analysts are taking note of them.

You also talked about Canada's role. You said that Canada has failed in recent years in its role as a leader on the international stage. That includes humanitarian assistance, the promotion of peace and human rights. Personally, I haven't seen Canada take action or, in any case, have a very credible voice internationally on the three crises you mentioned.

Is that what these three crises have in common?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

I'm going to start with the Rohingya crisis, because I think it is a very good example of a crisis where Canada stood up and showed significant leadership.

In 2017, at the outset of this crisis, Canada appointed Bob Rae as the special envoy for the Rohingya crisis. There was a report generated. There were recommendations and so on. This was significant not only because of those actions but also because the political capital it mobilized at a high level empowered Canada to take action at the country level in Bangladesh, where quite a bit of significant advocacy happened on behalf of the humanitarian response and of the Rohingya people. That permeated into other countries as well. There was a lot of very good work that happened under Canada's Rohingya strategy. Unfortunately, that wasn't specifically renewed in the budget. We think it should have been. That work needs to continue.

I mention it because it's a very helpful reminder that Canada can take on some of these crises and show significant leadership. I'm not saying that a special envoy is always going to be the solution, but having high-level political endorsement of a Canadian response that mobilizes humanitarian funding, diplomatic efforts, humanitarian advocacy, humanitarian policy and so on can be very effective when all of these resources are put to work in response to a crisis.

Simply funding a humanitarian response is not enough to address the underlying problems that create it or the myriad of problems that come along as organizations try to respond and negotiate access and so on, particularly in violent conflicts.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Again, you're the expert, not me, but I think I see a commonality among these three crises. I talked to you about funding and Canada's leadership role, but there also seems to be a lack of media coverage.

I'm in Lac-Saint-Jean every weekend, and no one talks to me about these crises. This is normal, since people have their own daily lives, and their own economic and social reality. However, these are some of the worst humanitarian crises on the planet, and we don't hear about them. That may not be the Government of Canada's role, though.

Is there a lack of media coverage? Are politicians doing enough to make these crises more publicized, so that people are more interested? I could be wrong.

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

It's both, in my opinion. It is very challenging to draw attention to neglected crises.

We talk about what we see in DRC, in the Rohingya camps in Bangladesh, in Myanmar, in Sudan, in Chad, in South Sudan and so on. It's very difficult to get media attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

You have 10 seconds.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do crises like the ones in Ukraine or Gaza, which we hear about every day, overshadow the ones that have been going on for some time now, the ones you've told us about?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

I think yes, but the needs are also very high in these crises.

Just quickly, on your second point, it's absolutely essential that members of Parliament are speaking about the neglected crises and trying to find a useful role for Canada in responding to these crises.

Yes, I think that we, as humanitarian organizations, have a responsibility to try to push this into the public dialogue, into the media and so on, but parliamentarians as well have a very clear responsibility to be talking about it, whether it's at committee, in statements in Parliament or somewhere else.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Dr. Nickerson.

I invite Mr. Johns to take the floor.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Again, I just want to extend my appreciation for the work you're doing and your important testimony today.

We heard Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe talk about the decline in aid from Canada.

Dr. Nickerson, you talked about 300 million people in literally life-saving requirement situations—the most ever in history.

Here in Canada right now.... We've heard from Ms. Lallemand—I'm going to give her a chance to speak a bit about it—who raised concerns about the government's plan to reduce immigration levels at a time like this. Certainly, we're seeing rising anti-immigration sentiment around the world and here in Canada.

Migrant Rights Network has just published an open letter to the Minister of Immigration and to our own Prime Minister on this issue. It's been endorsed by 143 organizations so far.

A portion of the letter reads:

Migrants are not responsible for Canada's housing crisis, lack of jobs, or inadequate healthcare or other public services. They often live in some of the worst housing [situations], face extreme exploitation at work, and are denied access to basic services. Recent media coverage and public statements linking them to the affordability crisis are distractions from decades of federal and provincial policies that have underfunded and privatized public services. Reductions to migration numbers lean into these xenophobic ideas, eroding public confidence in immigration policies and resulting in greater racism.

Ms. Lallemand, do you agree that refugees and migrants are being scapegoated right now by policy failures?

What can be done to counter that narrative?

[Lauren Lallemand]

Thank you very much for your question.

We have, at different moments, tried to address what we consider very troubling actions on the part of both federal and provincial leaders with the ways they speak about migrants and, in some cases, about international students, linking them to the different affordability crises that you mentioned.

I'll just note that during the COVID-19 pandemic, when Canada was not accepting anyone and our land borders were effectively closed, we had some of the largest increases in housing prices. This is a very clear indication that it actually does not have anything to do with the number of migrants arriving. These are long-standing social structural issues.

We encourage policy-makers and media to really question the kinds of linkages and narratives that are being pushed and ensure that they are not falling into traps of either talking points of right-wing groups or the backlash that we're seeing more widely across lots of different countries towards migrants, especially racialized people.

I really think there is a role for government officials to be closely watching how they speak about these very vulnerable populations and also ensuring that the media is not unnecessarily reproducing these narratives, even just to report on them.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

I really appreciate my friend and colleague, Ms. Damoff, talking about mental health supports.

Dr. Nickerson, maybe you can speak about the mental health impacts of forced displacement on populations like children, which are obviously more vulnerable to those impacts. Maybe you can also add how difficult it is for displaced persons to access trauma-informed mental health care.

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

Mental health programming has really become a core aspect of our humanitarian medical response. When you're inside a high-intensity armed conflict, people are exposed to a tremendous level of violence. It's unpredictable. It's often indiscriminate. People are exposed to very high levels of psychological stress, and they're in need of mental health assistance and support.

There continue to be huge gaps in this kind of programming. I would also say, as well, for more severe mental health disorders and psychiatric conditions, there's almost little to no aspect of that included in many humanitarian responses, so there's a very significant need.

In terms of trauma-informed responses, this is exactly how we're implementing a package of psychosocial care. I would say it is a really important aspect that I think needs to be considered.

We're a medical humanitarian organization. We integrate these things into our programming, and particularly for a service package such as sexual and gender-based violence care, there's the medical response and the psychosocial response, which we provide as a comprehensive package, but then people also continue to need access to legal assistance. They need housing. They need shelter. They need protection and so on.

I think there's really a need to consider the full suite of services that people need in these kinds of acute humanitarian crises.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Sure. I think you touched on it. It's an ongoing thing, rebuilding their lives. They're going to need help through that process, but what can be done to build capacity for psychological first aid on the migration routes and in those host countries for those displaced people?

[Dr. Jason Nickerson]

I'm not sure that I can give you a fully comprehensive answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

You have one minute, please.