Evidence of meeting #59 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Graduate Fellow, Manhattan Institute, As an Individual
Humanitarian aid is not going to solve the world's refugee crisis. It almost all goes to consumption spending. It's bread for today and hunger for tomorrow.
The only way to solve the refugee crisis is to have economic growth. Humanitarian aid has never pulled a country from poverty to riches. It has only been economic freedom.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you, Mr. Majumdar.
We're going to suspend the meeting for a few seconds to do another test with Mr. Rincón.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Mr. Chair, I would ask that people don't speak too fast for the interpreters.
Thank you.
October 29th, 2024 / 4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
I would like to invite you to take the floor for five minutes.
Please, don't speak that fast. Take it slow.
Go ahead, please.
Lawyer, As an Individual
As we speak, there are millions of people abandoning their home countries, leaving their homes, their families, for the purpose of finding liberty, jobs, the rule of law and, in particular, to have the opportunity to have a life.
We've been told that the only reason these people are moving around is the lack of opportunity—and that is true. However, what we haven't heard, at least not in a proper way, are the causes of this happening.
I'm from Venezuela, a country that used to be one of the richest countries in the world. In fact, in the past century, we got to be in the top five of the nations with the highest GDP per capita, way higher than Canada, and now we are one of the most miserable economies in the world. More than 80% of our people live in poverty. The minimum wage is $3.50 per month. This means that there are teachers, doctors and other professionals who are earning less than $50 per year, and this was supposedly a way forward to achieve equity thanks to socialism.
If we're going to speak about the causes of mass migration and refugees, we need to talk about the political systems that are causing the collapse of various nations all over the world. According to the Organization of American States, based on the data of United Nations, Venezuela is right now the country with the most refugees all over the world. We have more people fleeing the country than Ukraine, Syria and even Afghanistan, countries that are facing, right now, invasions and civil wars.
This means that more people are abandoning at this moment a country that used to be one of the most prosperous countries in the world because of a socialist system that delivered all the powers to the state supposedly for the well-being of the people and turned into a dictatorship, which has already happened a lot of times in the course of history.
Venezuela has right now eight million people outside of its territory. That is more than 25% of our entire population. We could populate two times a country like Uruguay with this number of people. What do we need to do now? Of course, we have to eliminate all kinds of wars in the world and also fight against any totalitarian regime that is collapsing our societies.
The past week, the Maduro regime killed an opposition leader named Edwin Santos. He was the father of two. The totalitarian regime killed him only because he was one of the people who worked to make sure that all the votes in the past election in Venezuela were counted. Now, his wife is alone with two children in a country without opportunities, without jobs, without proper salaries and with no rule of law. In an environment like this, how can you expect people not to try to escape?
If we really want to fight against mass migration, against the accumulation of millions of people all over the world in a refugee state, in conditions of vulnerability, we need to be fighting against the root causes of this crisis, at least in our hemisphere. We are talking right now about Venezuela, but the same can be said about Cuba or Nicaragua.
This past July 28, millions of people voted in Venezuela for a change, despite all the violations and abuse of power. Millions of people said that they wanted a free Venezuela, a democratic system. We showed the world that we won. We presented the ballots that proved that Edmundo González won the presidential election. Despite that, there are numerous countries all over the world that right now are refusing to accept and recognize González as the elected president. Canada is one of those countries too.
I will kindly ask this sovereign, enormous and respected country, if it really wants to fight against dictatorship, mass migration and the suffering of millions of people all over the world, to recognize González as our president, and not only make a recognition but also lead a coalition of countries to make sure that the vote of the Venezuelan people is respected.
If you choose to be neutral in situations of injustice, you are de facto choosing the side of the oppressor. If you are watching your neighbour torturing their children, killing their family, and you do nothing, you are being complicit in the crime. Please pardon me. I don't want to sound disrespectful, but if we really want to achieve something with this meeting, we should focus on acting, not just pretending to do it. We can really change the world.
Canada, the United States and the European Union can really do something to change the lives of millions of people all over the world. The only thing that we need is to have the political will to do it. If the developed countries want to really help the people of the third world nations to have an opportunity to live better, the answer is not to accept them all into their countries. The real answer is to fight to protect freedom and democracy in these nations, and in that way, to make sure that, in the first place, people don't have this necessity of abandoning their homelands.
I know it is not easy, and not all the countries are in the same situation, but in the case of Venezuela—
Liberal
Lawyer, As an Individual
I'm going to finish right now.
You can really right now stop the refugee crisis by recognizing democracy and fighting with millions of Venezuelans to put in charge the government that the majority has already chosen.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you.
Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for seven minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here for this very important study.
Ms. Ravon, we've heard a lot of things so far in the committee. I would like to put things in perspective in terms of the causes of the migration waves, particularly in relation to the types of political regimes. Isn't it true that non-democratic political regimes can be sources of migration, without necessarily being far-left or far-right regimes?
Executive director, Oxfam Canada
Thank you very much for the question.
We see a number of causes of displacement. Just bringing it back to who the political leader of the day is, authoritarian or not, that is one cause, but it's one cause among many. For us, it's a kind of triangle. It's poverty, it's stability around the democratic process and it's climate-induced catastrophes. This is what we're seeing, and now conflict is piling on top of that.
We can't reduce it to one cause, but we know that countries that have political stability, economic stability, social safety nets, employment opportunities and a sense of security create the conditions for people to stay put. This is why people stay home and they don't flee. Not all of that is caused by political leaders of the day, but a democratic society where people have a say in how decisions are made and how government funds are spent, in particular on public services, makes a huge difference.
Therefore, investing in public services is something that we advocate for. It's obviously much easier to do in a democratic regime, but I wouldn't say that everything has to do with politics. Today, climate-induced disasters can hit any country. We are being hit in Canada. We see the forest fires, the debilitating smoke and the flooding in Quebec, where I live. We have a democracy, and we're still being hit by climate crises that will eventually cause displacement in our own country.
As we look at the causes of the migration crisis, we need to understand they're complex, but the only way to answer them is to invest in sustainable development. That means, in some contexts, climate-smart agriculture. In another context, it's building codes that are resilient to natural disasters, and, in others, it's youth vocational training where you have a huge youth population and not enough employment opportunities. In every context, it's investing in gender equality. We know that countries that have more gender equality are also more stable and are less likely to contribute to global displacement crises.
It's a complicated answer, but it's a complicated problem. If we want to be addressing it, we need to be looking at that interplay between democratic development, sustainable development, humanitarian aid—when necessary—and peacebuilding.
One last thing on peacebuilding is that we hear so few women's voices in peacebuilding efforts. If women are not involved in those processes, they're less likely to hold in the long run and, again, that will contribute to fuelling this cycle of crisis, war and displacement.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
One of your recommendations—I think it's the third one—is that Canada act as a leader on the international stage to bring together as many countries as possible to co-operate on migration. Migration is one of your areas of expertise, and you've seen a lot of migration waves over the years since you've been with Oxfam.
You'll agree that Canada is neither a military nor an economic power. However, it's a country that has a history of human rights and leadership for peace—a Quebec sovereignist is telling you that. We can think of Brian Mulroney, Lester B. Pearson and a number of other great Canadian politicians who have had an impact on the international scene.
Do you feel that Canada's star has dimmed a bit in recent years on the international scene? If not, do you feel that Canada is having less of an impact on the international scene than before when it comes to issues such as the well-being of migrants and refugees?
Executive director, Oxfam Canada
The world definitely needs more democratically elected leaders that are willing to speak up on issues of human rights and global security issues. We need more. There are not that many voices.
I wouldn't speak specifically to Canada not sufficiently being a leader. I would say that we're not hearing that many leaders on the global stage that are actually advancing a human rights agenda and advancing an agenda on international humanitarian law. There aren't that many voices.
There's a distrust of multilateral systems. There's an increasing distrust in UN processes. We need more voices that are speaking out on these issues. There's a kind of vacuum of discourse on fundamental principles around gender equality, human rights and the rights of refugees. Not demonizing people who are on the run but actually speaking up in their defence is really critical.
There's definitely more room for Canada to be speaking up. It's a time when, if you look across the G7 and the G20, there aren't many leaders that are really speaking out in defence of the principles that I think most Canadians would really cling to and believe in. We see ourselves as a country that was built on various waves of migration and as a welcoming country. It's expressing that at a time when there's rising xenophobia, when there are these populist trends that are fuelling fear of the people who are going to be coming to our borders. That's very harmful.
Yes, there's room for Canada, certainly.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I'll move on to something more concrete. You talk a lot about gender equality, and with good reason.
We're talking about the global migration crisis. There's a fairly well-known route from Brazil up to Colombia and Venezuela, and then through Central America to the United States.
Are you aware of what's happening on that route? What does it mean for women and girls to cross the entire continent from south to north?
Executive director, Oxfam Canada
Thank you for that question. It means a lot to me.
There are two things that are not being covered by the international community in that very dangerous migration trail.
One is care responsibilities. That's women who are left alone to care for family members and for children as men are leaving their communities—
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
On a point of order.
We'll have to start that answer over again because there was no interpretation.
Thank you.
Executive director, Oxfam Canada
There are two things. We're seeing that, in many communities, men are migrating and women are left alone to care for children and the elderly, so there's a big care crisis. It's really on women's shoulders. They're having to hold entire societies afloat as men are migrating outside of communities.
The second trend we're seeing is that women on this migration trail are at incredible risk of sexual violence. This is something that's under-reported and not sufficiently covered in terms of the humanitarian services along that very dangerous migration corridor.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you, Ms. Ravon.
Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
I invite Mr. Gord Johns to take the floor for seven minutes, please.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
First, I just want to thank all the witnesses for testifying.
Certainly, Ms. Ravon, thanks to you for the work that Oxfam does and to all of the people involved in Oxfam for the humanitarian work that they do to save lives every day. I really appreciate it.
I'm going to follow up on Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. He talked about the important role Canada played when it came to stability, security, human rights and peacebuilding. We think about Lester B. Pearson. He won a Nobel Peace Prize.
There's actually a Peace Train Canada group leaving from the west coast and coming to Ottawa in November. They're calling for the restoration of a Pearson peace centre—for it to reopen. It played an important role in developing capacity and having conversations. People from as far away as Bamfield and Port Alberni, in my community, are coming. Their vision is:
That Canada becomes an independent, middle power [again] that is invested in...promoting a culture of peace and resisting the culture of war....
They cite a few things:
Recognizing Canada’s historical and present involvement in injustice, colonialism, and asymmetrical power structures, here and abroad, and working towards true reconciliation;
Identifying the underlying causes of [human conflict and] violent conflict;
Upholding the UN Declaration of Human Rights: the basics of justice, equality, freedom, security, and well-being for all, as essential for preventing violent conflict and war;
Expanding Canada's role in United Nations peacekeeping....
Prioritizing open and informed public and parliamentary debate....
They call on the government to:
...establish and fund a Centre of Excellence for Peace and Justice focused on research, education, and training in conflict resolution, diplomacy, and peace operations for Canadian civilians, police, military personnel, and the international community.
Do you think this would be important for us to look toward?
Executive director, Oxfam Canada
Thanks.
I don't know anything about this specific initiative, so I wouldn't speak about that.
I think what's important for Canada to do is to connect the dots better among the different ways we are in the world and how we show up—how we conduct trade and do diplomacy, humanitarian aid, development work and defence. Right now, it feels quite disconnected. Connect the dots. We know we're safer if the global community is healthier. Our diplomacy can advance some of this work. It doesn't only have to be through aid dollars or a humanitarian response.
What I want to see is Canada having more coherence across the trade, diplomacy, development and humanitarian spectrum.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I appreciate that. Obviously, they're advocating for the reopening of this centre to create dialogue in order to support that important work.
Now, you spoke about the unique risks women and girls face in situations of forced displacement. You shared horrific stats with us earlier.
What measures can be taken to address those risks on the ground—in refugee camps and on transit routes—through international frameworks? Can you make recommendations to this committee?
Executive director, Oxfam Canada
A lot more can be done. We, as Oxfam, have concerns about the way humanitarian aid is delivered.
As I mentioned before, anything that has to do with advancing women's rights and gender equality—like specific programs focused on women in a humanitarian response—is not generally deemed eligible for funding, because it's not perceived as life-saving. We need to either widen our definition or understanding of humanitarian aid, or build in a joint approach, where you have programs supporting women's empowerment and equality alongside humanitarian initiatives. Right now, humanitarian responses have a very narrow focus on protection, but that doesn't build a more equal society after the humanitarian response has passed. Widen that up.
At Oxfam, we work on gender and emergencies. This can allow women to be involved in local committees that determine how aid is going to be spent. It can mean skills training so women are participating in water initiatives or learning how they can maintain boreholes after an international organization like Oxfam has built them so they can be involved in long-term maintenance. All of that is so disconnected, right now, from the way we fund humanitarian work, and we don't get the full impact we could. Canada is a generous humanitarian funder. However, by divorcing the two, we're running after our tail. We're going from one emergency to the next.
Whether it's a natural disaster or a war, women's rights backtrack. This is systemic. We lose ground on gender equality. Therefore, in the world we're living in today, we're likely see significant backsliding if we don't make those investments.