Evidence of meeting #59 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lauren Ravon  Executive director, Oxfam Canada
Daniel Di Martino  Graduate Fellow, Manhattan Institute, As an Individual
Emmanuel Rincón  Lawyer, As an Individual
Alexander Waxman  Internally Displaced Persons and Refugees Protection Expert, for 12 years in sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and Southeastern Europe with UN Humanitarian Agencies, As an Individual
Lauren Lallemand  Co-Executive Director, Canadian Council for Refugees
Jason Nickerson  Humanitarian Representative to Canada, Doctors Without Borders

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Thanks so much for that.

According to the UNHRC, Lebanon is going through this terrible conflict and they're hosting the largest number of refugees per square kilometre in the world, including approximately a million and a half Syrian refugees.

Can you provide an update on the current situation in Lebanon and how it has led to the forced displacement of Lebanese people, as well as refugees and migrants already living in Lebanon? What can Canada do to respond to this growing humanitarian crisis at this time?

4:45 p.m.

Executive director, Oxfam Canada

Lauren Ravon

Thanks for raising Lebanon in particular.

First, I would say that the Government of Canada has been very helpful by having a matched contribution both with members of the Humanitarian Coalition that Oxfam is part of and with the Red Cross. It's matching Canadian donations to the humanitarian response in Lebanon. That's fantastic.

I want to highlight how effective the match is. Right now, we're seeing that people in Canada do not know about the crisis people are experiencing in Lebanon. I will tell you, frankly, that this has been one of the hardest humanitarian emergencies to fundraise for in Oxfam's recent history. The reason is that people tend to give less for a humanitarian response when a country is hit by war. We tend to give more generously when people are struggling with drought, floods, hurricanes or any other natural disaster. People tend to only hear talk in the news about the belligerence, the bombs and the militants. We hear the geopolitical side of the story—the politics behind the conflict in Lebanon—but we don't hear much about the mom trying to keep her kids alive or about people literally living in public parks in Beirut today because they have nowhere to get shelter.

Whether your family is hit by a drought or a war, if you can't feed your kids, you can't feed your kids. I think having the government help organizations like Oxfam get the message out—telling Canadians how badly Lebanese people today are suffering—is very helpful, because we are struggling to get that attention. There's definitely donor fatigue. People feel like the world is on fire, and it's hard to know where and when to give. However, the suffering is real. Whether it's because of war or something else, if you've lost a limb, if your child has died of hunger or if you have nowhere to sleep at night, the problem is the same for you.

We need the government to help us get the word out. The matched contribution for members of the Humanitarian Coalition is extremely helpful to us, so I am thankful for that.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Ms. Ravon, Mr. Di Martino and Mr. Rincón, thank you for your really great testimony. Thank you for your participation.

Mr. Lake.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, we got the tech issues figured out for Mr. Rincón. Then only two parties even had a chance to ask him a question, and neither did.

I don't know if this would work for him, but could we at least offer him the opportunity to hold on and take questions in the second round, if anybody has questions for him? He doesn't have to do another opening statement.

An hon. member

[Inaudible—Editor]

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB

If one of us wants to ask a question of him using our time, we should have the ability to do so. You don't have to.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Mr. Rincón, would you agree to stay for the other part of the meeting and be ready to answer if some members would like to ask you a question?

4:45 p.m.

Lawyer, As an Individual

Emmanuel Rincón

It's okay with me.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you. No problem.

Again, thank you for your participation in this important study. If you feel that you have some other information you'd like to share with the committee, please feel free to write to the clerk. Thank you.

The meeting is now suspended.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

I call the meeting back to order.

I'd like to welcome our second panel of witnesses.

First, we have Alexander Waxman, an expert in the protection of internally displaced persons and refugees for over 12 years with UN humanitarian agencies in sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and Southeast Europe. He is appearing as an individual.

We also have Lauren Lallemand, co-executive director of the Canadian Council for Refugees, who is participating in the meeting by video conference.

Finally, from Doctors Without Borders in Canada, we have Jason Nickerson, humanitarian representative.

Welcome to all of you. Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

Mr. Waxman, you have the floor for five minutes.

The floor is yours.

Alexander Waxman Internally Displaced Persons and Refugees Protection Expert, for 12 years in sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and Southeastern Europe with UN Humanitarian Agencies, As an Individual

Thank you.

Committee members, it's an honour to be invited to speak today. I will situate what I consider an event horizon in terms of migration, IDPs and refugees from my vantage point as a protection and child protection expert working at the front lines of major humanitarian responses.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Excuse me. Can you speak more slowly in order to give our interpreters a chance?

4:55 p.m.

Internally Displaced Persons and Refugees Protection Expert, for 12 years in sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and Southeastern Europe with UN Humanitarian Agencies, As an Individual

Alexander Waxman

Pardon me. No problem. They also have a copy of this.

This is from my vantage point as a protection and child protection expert working the front lines of major humanitarian responses over 12 years for UNICEF and UNHCR.

There are three prime drivers of IDP and refugee flows. First, deleterious socio-economic conditions and poor overall governance in countries across sub-Saharan Africa, MENA and Asia are causing people to seek economic betterment, which in turn is tied to seeking asylum and refugee status in favourable host countries like Canada, western Europe and Scandinavia.

Crisis protraction is another cause of internal and external movement, as most crises on the global map are human-driven, lasting years, decades or even generations. Somalia, South Sudan, Nigeria and Yemen are prime examples of these conflicts.

Climate change is an ever-increasing driver. Desertification, longer and harsher heat waves, and a paucity of water infrastructure are motivators in this regard and will continue to be as climate change worsens. The Lake Chad basin crisis is emblematic of this.

Migration, as I have stated, is an “event horizon” upon us, a term borrowed to describe the point when nothing escapes the gravitational pull of a black hole. Similarly, a plurality of crises will worsen from unaddressed socio-economic change in vulnerable nations alongside climate deterioration, driving more to be on the move. The ability to respond with agility to movements will be lost with the economic burden increasingly placed on countries like ours.

Humanitarian funding for UN agencies is an annual one that is known as the “humanitarian programme cycle”, or HPC, which donor countries like ours fund. It is as outmoded as the post-war documents that created many UN agencies. Nearly all crises today are protracted. Durable funding streams need to be deployed with expert staff to enforce structural change aimed at handing over responses, especially IDP situations, to local authorities to manage. Too often, local governments do little on the response side, leaving humanitarian feeding, shelter, protection, etc., up to the UN and international NGOs.

The nature of the HPC cycle means that technical experts are hired once funding is secured, and then deployed in-country after months of bureaucracy worthy of Franz Kafka. If one is lucky, we get six or eight months to respond to the crisis on the ground. This leads local actors and government to view UN agencies as fickle. Meanwhile, UN agencies use half-started or poorly conceived projects as statistical successes in terms of the numbers they reach to justify further funding extensions.

The same goes for international and local NGO vassals on the ground who execute the grunt work of UN projects. Most of them are poorly staffed or managed and wait to see if they will get funds from UN agencies to retain staff or not. Cooking the books—excuse the term—to make it seem like there are large needs is an incentive to ensure contract extensions.

Strategies for changing this paradigm, such as the grand bargain localization strategy, are highly problematic, as they favour direct funding to local NGOs, so-called LONGOs. These LONGOs are managed by persons with little to no financial acumen, staff who constantly turn over and staff who are not well trained in international humanitarian practices. The risk of wasted donor money is high in this regard.

There are major—major—mandate replications inside the UN system. I will use child protection as a singular example. Just one subset of child protection, called family tracing and reunification, is mandated to UNICEF, UNHCR, the IOM and ICRC simultaneously. Each agency has its own internal database of cases and does not share it with others, citing data privacy. In reality, each is trying to maintain domain dominance to justify continued funding. On the ground, this means that families and children are often confused as to who is handling a case. The tracing process gets gummed up in UN bureaucracy and inter-agency rivalry. Families and children turn to informal channels, such as smugglers, as a solution, making them more vulnerable.

There are major flaws in UN human resourcing, especially at UNHCR and UNICEF. At UNHCR, RSD adjudicators—refugee status determination, that is—in the field often have no law degrees, yet they are assessing asylum or resettlement claims that ultimately come to our shores based on flimsy interview work, out-of-date country-of-origin research and little oversight.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Can you wrap it up, please, Mr. Waxman?

5 p.m.

Internally Displaced Persons and Refugees Protection Expert, for 12 years in sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and Southeastern Europe with UN Humanitarian Agencies, As an Individual

Alexander Waxman

I have just four more bullet points, sir, if you wouldn't mind. That would be fine.

Moreover, UNHCR can and does outsource its RSD mandate to other agencies with even less expertise and oversight, such as the DRC.

Data-driven needs assessments, which are ostensibly nationwide statistical exercises, are incompletely done. At UNICEF's Global Education Cluster in Geneva, for example, a contractor with merely a degree in English literature, living in Panama, was designated to lead global trainings on statistical exercises because they were the spouse of a senior UNICEF education officer. How can we expect data to be accurate when non-data scientists are at the helm owing to nepotism?

I'll conclude with my last two points. Most refugee claims are socio-economic in nature and not rooted in the grounds of the 1951 convention, which stipulates conferring refugee status due to a well-founded fear of persecution based on race, religion, nationality or membership in a particular social group. As such, asylum seekers here in Canada and those abroad processed by UNHCR massage their claims to include elements in commonly accessible country-of-origin reports to substantiate their case in a tick-the-box fashion.

I will stop now. I have submitted this document.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you.

5 p.m.

Internally Displaced Persons and Refugees Protection Expert, for 12 years in sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and Southeastern Europe with UN Humanitarian Agencies, As an Individual

Alexander Waxman

You can refer to it yourselves, and the translators can share that with you.

I welcome any questions. Thank you for your time.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you, Mr. Waxman.

Now I would like to invite Ms. Lallemand to take the floor for five minutes.

Lauren Lallemand Co-Executive Director, Canadian Council for Refugees

Thank you, Mr. Chair and the members of the committee for inviting me and my fellow panellists to speak before you today.

The Canadian Council for Refugees is Canada's leading national umbrella representing 200 frontline organizations across the country working with refugees and migrants. For this reason, I will concentrate my remarks on Canada's response and welcoming of refugees.

Every year, millions of people are forced to leave their homes due to conflict, violence, human rights violations, persecutions, disasters and the impacts of climate change. The number of forcibly displaced persons has reached unprecedented heights in 2024. It is now upwards of 122 million people, double what it was a decade ago. Given this unprecedented need for protection, last week Canada made the troubling decision to slash its immigration levels. This included reductions in the number of government-assisted refugees, privately sponsored refugees and special emergency measures.

Shockingly, the number for protected persons and their dependents abroad was cut by 31%, from 29,000 to 20,000. With a current backlog in this category of over 100,000 active applications, the 2025 numbers are signalling that only one out of every five refugees and family members will get permanent status and be able to move on with their lives. Furthermore, the levels for government-assisted refugees will drop from 23,000 to roughly 15,000. The level for privately sponsored refugees will be reduced by 5,000.

Refugees being resettled from overseas often wait more than three years for their application to come to Canada to be processed. These cuts will mean that refugees will be forced to wait in situations where their lives are at risk on a daily basis. The federal government has framed these cuts in the context of a changing economy. However, Canada has not been immune to a global trend of rising anti-immigrant sentiment and rhetoric that dehumanizes vulnerable migrants. It has been particularly troubling to see the way that refugee claimants have been politicized and incorrectly labelled as a crisis within our country.

We know that Canada has a remarkable capacity to resettle and welcome refugees, and ensuring that immigration policies are not overtaken by xenophobic discourses is crucial to ensuring that the federal government continues to plan for adequate levels of humanitarian immigration.

I would like to take a moment to highlight concerns that the CCR has included in our call for equity in response to crises.

Canadians expect the government to show leadership in providing immigration pathways to people affected by major catastrophes. Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada is currently developing a crisis response framework. This framework must be developed with a consciousness of the long-standing neglect of crises on the African continent.

Canada has demonstrated it has the capacity to welcome those displaced from conflict through the measures adopted in response to the situations in Ukraine and Afghanistan. Meanwhile, crises such as the one unfolding in Ethiopia's Tigray region in recent years, for example, have not been met with any special measures. Despite the scale of the crisis currently unfolding in Sudan, media and political attention has been limited and the emergency response has been a fraction of what has been made available in other situations.

Canada's history with colonialism and the effects of systemic racism are reinforced through immigration systems in multiple ways, and these further exacerbate existing marginalization. The concern for equity and transparency must be at the heart of Canada's crisis response.

I will now conclude by speaking briefly to the safe third country agreement between Canada and the U.S., which was expanded—

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Could you wrap it up please? The time has run out.

5:05 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, Canadian Council for Refugees

Lauren Lallemand

Thank you.

This agreement has had devastating impacts on tens of thousands of forcibly displaced people seeking protection. It has not stopped irregular crossings. It has only made them more dangerous and underground. The CCR maintains that this agreement should be withdrawn.

Just to very quickly conclude, I would reiterate that the fundamental rights of those fleeing persecution need to be at the centre of Canada's concern.

Thank you very much.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

Thank you, Ms. Lallemand.

Now, I would like to invite Mr. Jason Nickerson to take the floor for five minutes, please.

Dr. Jason Nickerson Humanitarian Representative to Canada, Doctors Without Borders

Thank you very much.

Good evening, and thank you for having me here.

Doctors Without Borders, or Médecins Sans Frontières, provides medical humanitarian care to people who have been forced to flee their homes because of violence, conflict, persecution and, increasingly, climate change. Our teams provide vital medical care at every step of people's treacherous displacement journeys, including providing surgery and trauma care, maternal health and obstetric services, vaccination campaigns, mental health activities, the provision of clean drinking water—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB

I'm sorry, Jason.

I have a point of order. We're getting the French interpretation on our English channel.

The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury

This is good.