Evidence of meeting #62 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russian.
A recording is available from Parliament.
December 3rd, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Yale School of Public Health Humanitarian Research Lab
Yes, we can immediately. The names are listed within it. We can also provide the underlying data about the children, if so requested by the Canadian government.
We have provided that to the Government of Ukraine, the national police, the ministry of justice, and the International Criminal Court. Yes, sir.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Suslova, you really do have extraordinary skills.
You're the ombudsman for children's rights in Ukraine. In your opinion, isn't the forced adoption and brainwashing of children an act that violates the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide adopted by the United Nations in 1948?
Representative of the Ombudsman of Ukraine on Child's Rights, Office of Ombudsman of Ukraine
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
The prosecutor service of Ukraine has started proceedings on these matters, and all the crimes, the war crimes, and how to qualify whether it's genocide are dealt with by investigative authorities.
Thank you.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Raymond, in your opinion, does this violate the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide?
Executive Director, Yale School of Public Health Humanitarian Research Lab
I'm waiting for interpretation, sir.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
In your opinion, do the crimes currently being committed against Ukrainian children by Mr. Putin's regime—brainwashing, forced transfers and forced adoptions—violate the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide adopted by the United Nations in 1948?
Executive Director, Yale School of Public Health Humanitarian Research Lab
Sir, it is a subcomponent act of the crime of genocide. It requires what is called dolus specialis, which is a finding of special intent. By itself, it is not genocide, but it can, with special intent and combined with other acts, constitute genocide. In our report, we address the legal question of whether these acts are prima facie by themselves, consistent with alleged crimes against humanity.
In terms of whether this evidence could be part of a crime of genocide prosecution, yes, it could be part of a larger crime of genocide prosecution. However, by itself, without special intent, it is simply a crime against humanity, which, while grave, is not prima facie genocide.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.
Now, I invite Mr. Johns to take the floor for three minutes, please.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you both for your important testimony and the critical work you're doing.
Ms. Suslova, the international coalition for the return of Ukrainian children was launched this past February by both Canada and Ukraine. Global Affairs Canada identified four key areas of focus for the coalition: the coordination of joint efforts, information sharing, capacities alignment, and advocacy and communication.
Can you please speak to the progress that has been made by the coalition on these key areas since it was launched in February?
Representative of the Ombudsman of Ukraine on Child's Rights, Office of Ombudsman of Ukraine
[Witness spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]
On December 8, the first meeting took place. What is the progress? We have progress in searching for children. We have attracted more partners, teams that are doing verification and searching for children. Also, we had a conference, as Mr. Raymond said. Only one team was Nathaniel Raymond's, and we are very grateful for his team's efforts, but there are other teams all around the world who are helping us find children.
The second question is the registry. We have to have verified data. Without the data, we cannot do our work of returning children. We have good news that the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine has opened a registry. It was announced in Montreal. We have to collect information from all stakeholders—Ukrainian data and from other government agencies—collect data in one registry and one database, and verify the data. Then we'll have a better understanding of what the numbers of children are. It's a huge effort, and it has to be done. This is our homework, and we are supported by our international partners in this work.
The third very important part is attracting a new intermediary. Currently, we are working with Save Ukraine, the Ukrainian Child Rights Network, as well as the ombudsman of the parliament. They work through Qatar or Moskalkova.
As I mentioned earlier, we don't have too many children whom we were able to repatriate back with the help of international intermediaries. We have to find additional intermediaries. It's an important role for the international coalition in this. They can work to find new intermediaries between our two countries. The more intermediaries, the more there will be opportunities to bring back more children.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Fayçal El-Khoury
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Johns.
On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank Mr. Raymond and Ms. Suslova for their presence and their good testimony. It was very interesting to the committee. If you feel some other information may be of interest to us, please feel free to send it to the clerk or to me.
We wish you well. Thank you for your presence.
Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
No. On a point of order, you forgot to acknowledge that it's Ms. Vandenbeld's birthday.
