Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I call this meeting to order.

Before we start, on behalf of all members of the committee and our staff, I would like to welcome a newcomer to this committee, Mr. Ron McKinnon.

Welcome, Ron, to our committee.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm very pleased to join you all. I've heard it's a great committee, and I'm looking forward to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Welcome to meeting number 62 of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I would like to remind participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. The committee members must raise their hand if they wish to speak, whether they're in the room or participating through Zoom. The subcommittee clerk and I will do our best to maintain the order of speakers.

Before introducing the witnesses, I would like to take a moment to draw the committee members' attention to a budget handed out to them last week. The budget authorizes expenses related to our study on the current status of deported Ukrainian children. If the members are ready to adopt this budget, we can do so now. Otherwise, if the members want more time to review the budget, we can come back to it next week.

Is the subcommittee ready to adopt the budget?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

We'll now move on to our study.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the subcommittee on November 5, 2024, the committee is beginning its study of the current status of deported Ukrainian children.

I want to welcome the witnesses.

We're joined by Olga Tymchenko, independent strategic communications consultant; Mykola Kuleba, chief executive officer of Save Ukraine; and Veronika Sheldagaieva from Voices of Children.

You'll have a maximum of five minutes for your remarks. We'll then open the floor to questions.

Ms. Tymchenko, you have the floor for five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Olga Tymchenko, Independent Strategic Communications Consultant, As an Individual]

[Member spoke in Ukrainian, interpreted as follows:]

My name is Olga Tymchenko. I have the honour of telling you the story of Valeriia, an 18-year-old girl who is a symbol of resilience and the fight for freedom for me personally. Her life forever changed on February 24, 2022, when her hometown of Nova Kakhovka in Kherson region came under Russian occupation.

Before the war, Valeriia was a regular teenager. She loved dancing and aerial gymnastics. She loved walking along the banks of the Dnieper River and dreaming of the future. All of this came to a halt that morning when tanks with the letter Z and military heavy equipment appeared on the streets of the city. At first, nobody understood what was going on. Then everyone saw a Russian flag being hung on the hydroelectric power station building. That's when everyone understood that the war had really started.

Life under occupation was unbearable. Valeriia was constantly in fear. There was shelling, and there were explosions. Due to fear, she had continuous tinnitus.

The war started in October 2022 when the Russian occupiers started to “evacuate” children. On October 8, Valeriia, with more than 500 other children from Nova Kakhovka, were forcibly taken to occupied Crimea by the Russians. They were loaded onto 14 buses. They were taken under a military police convoy. The children were told that this was temporary, only for two weeks, but this was not true. Valeriia spent two months in Luchystiy camp in Yevpatoria. At that time, she was only 16.

Life in the camp was unbearable. The mornings began with the singing of the Russian anthem followed by lessons in which the children were told a false version of history. Teachers insisted that the Holodomor never happened and that Chernobyl was fiction. There was a lot of propaganda about the greatness of Russia. Children were told that their future lies with Russia. Children were also pressured to move to Russia. They were promised all sorts of benefits if only they agreed to receive a Russian passport. Valeriia was shocked to find out that sick children couldn't even get health care without agreeing to take on the Russian nationality.

It was especially difficult to watch the youngest children aged five- or six-years-old in this camp. They were dirty. They were coughing. They had head lice. The camp did not provide them with even with the most basic of conditions. There was no medication, and children were punished.

Two months later, her grandmother came to pick up Valeriia. She was allowed to leave the camp on the condition that she would return, but she risked everything and decided to go to Ukraine to the unoccupied territories. She travelled alone through Russian checkpoints in Mariupol, Rostov-on-Don and Belgorod. Valeriia went through filtration camps in Russia and had to walk for two hours with her bags through a minefield. When she finally saw Ukrainian soldiers, she burst into tears.

In Ukraine, Valeriia was all alone and no had family around, but she passed an exam and entered a medical college in Kyiv. She had a dorm room, a scholarship and an the opportunity to study.

I met her in the winter of 2023. She was full of pain but determined to continue and build her future. I decided to support her and take her into my custody. She accepted. For nine months now, we have been living together. We are a family. During this time, I have seen how deep Valeriia's desire is to help others. She is studying to become a doctor. Her dream is to treat sick and wounded war victims.

Her story is the story of every child in Ukraine who has seen the war and lost their childhood, but remains strong. It is also a reminder of the thousands of children who are still under occupation and deprived of their basic rights.

I urge you to support Ukraine, our children, our freedom and our dignity.

Thank you for your faith and for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you. That was very good timing.

Now I would like to invite Mr. Mykola Kuleba to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Mykola Kuleba, Chief Executive Officer, Save Ukraine]

Thank you so much.

Thank you for this opportunity. Today, I speak to you about a tragedy that transcends borders: the plight of Ukrainian children. Nearly 50% of the child population in Ukraine have been displaced, deported or lost to Russia's war in Ukraine. These children are not just numbers. Half of our children are at risk. With them, our very future and the very soul of our nation are at risk.

For our children still in Ukraine, around 1.6 million Ukrainian children living in Russian-occupied territories have been subjected to relentless indoctrination and medieval colonization by the Kremlin since 2014. They have been forced to adopt the Russian language, culture, values and traditions. They have been stripped of their Ukrainian identities and forced to foster loyalty to the occupying power, including eventual forced conscription to the Russian armed forces.

Only 19,546 have been officially identified as having been forcibly deported since the full-scale invasion, which is a huge number, but it is still inaccurate. As such, it underscores the vast scale of this atrocity and the urgent need for action to locate and return these children.

In occupied territories, schools erase Ukrainian history, calling our country a failed state. Children as young as six are enrolled in militarized programs, dressed in Russian uniforms and raised to hate the west. Many frontline Russian fighters today were once Ukrainian children, who have been moulded by this propaganda since 2014. A 10-year-old boy then is now a 20-year-old Russian soldier.

Even more alarming is the forced conscription of Ukrainian boys as young as 17 from the territories occupied since 2022. These boys, coerced into accepting Russian passports, are turned into soldiers for the aggressor state. This process violates a number of international instruments, including the Geneva convention, as it represents a deliberate strategy to use young Ukrainians as weapons against their own people.

Consider Serhiy, who, at 17 years old, was forced to accept a Russian passport under the threat of losing his property. Soon after, armed soldiers issued him a draft notice at gunpoint. With our help, Serhiy escaped, but many others remain trapped in this horrifying cycle.

All these actions bear the signs of genocide. Thousands of Ukrainian children are being systematically turned into instruments of war and victims of a conflict they never chose.

At Save Ukraine, we fight to save these children and preserve an entire generation. We have rescued over 500 children and provided trauma-informed, child-sensitive and evidence-based care to heal the deep scars of war, propaganda and indoctrination. Our services reintegrate these rescued children and families into society, helping them rebuild their lives and reclaim their identity.

However, we cannot do this alone. Canada has shown the world power, responsibility and leadership. Your support across parties has been pivotal, from leading coalitions to return deported children to partnering with Hala Systems for child identification and the return of some of the children. We also deeply appreciate the Ukrainian diaspora, the Ukrainian children's congress and organizations like the Canada-Ukraine Foundation and the Temerty Foundation for their unwavering support.

Every child saved is a future restored. Together we can ensure that no Ukrainian children are left behind, no identities are erased and no dreams are stolen.

I look forward to the questions to follow. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Now I would like to invite Ms. Veronika Sheldagaieva to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Veronika Sheldagaieva, Voices of Children]

Hello, dear committee. My name is Veronika Sheldagaieva. I'm 17 years old. I'm from Kherson, which is a city in Ukraine that was militarily occupied by Russians in March 2022 when I was 13. I lived under the military occupation for seven months. I'm here to speak because I escaped, but many have not.

At the beginning of the occupation, people took to the streets to protest against the invasion and against Russia. My teachers and friends were among those who protested, but then Russians started shooting them at protests.

In the early days, in states of panic, people emptied all of the food from shops. Later, food was rarely replenished. Some farmers from villages attempted to bring in provisions, but the Russians halted them at checkpoints and took half of their supplies. The queues for bread were endless. My parents were in those queues for a long time. We couldn't find toothpaste anywhere, and yeast was being exchanged by people as if it was as valuable as gold. I remember how my parents used to divide groceries at home to make them last as long as possible, so there would be enough for everyone.

At checkpoints and even on the streets, Russian soldiers would check people's phones. If they found anything pro-Ukrainian, they would send people to their makeshift prisons. We called this “being taken to the cellar”.

During occupation, I ran my own volunteer educational online project. One day, an unknown woman messaged me on Telegram and said that it was clear from my posts that I had a pro-Ukrainian position and that I should follow certain safety rules. I was scared because, if some stranger found my contact, anyone could do it. People there live in such a paranoid state constantly.

In the early months, Ukrainian communications networks were already blocked. For a while, people lived entirely without communication, which is very difficult for a modern person. We couldn't even find out about the danger because there was no air alarm in the city. It was a state of complete uncertainty.

The Russians held a pseudo-referendum, going door to door with guns and ballots. Obviously, those who refused to participate were in great danger. Yes, with weapons in their hands, Russians even came to my relatives' apartment.

Soldiers also came to my school. They scared our management and forced them onto their side. They told the parents that if their children refused to attend the occupied schools under a Russian curriculum full of propaganda, they would be deprived of their parental rights and the children would be sent to orphanages. At the same time, school activities at schools for some people I know.... They ended up being deported to Russia without their consent. I didn't go to that school. I was afraid that I could be taken away. When someone knocked on the door, I used to hide.

Eventually, my family and I decided to leave. There was never a safe way out of the occupied territories. We were scared to leave, but it was equally risky to remain there. We were on the road for one week. The occupation authorities organized metal rafts that were pulled across the Dnieper River by motorboats. It was a very risky construction. A rocket hit it within a half an hour after my family and I used it.

Now I live on the other side of the front line and nothing of this is in my life anymore. All that is left are my memories. Despite the horrors I live with, I believe in the world that helps Ukraine. I believe in Ukraine. I believe in Ukrainian teenagers. We fight. We do a lot of things. We believe and we are strong.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Thank you for your remarks.

Now I would like to start the debate with questions and answers.

To start, I'd like to invite Mr. Majumdar to take the floor for seven minutes. The floor is yours.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, all three of you, for taking the time to be with us today.

Veronika, merry Christmas, albeit an early one.

When you think about what, over the next month, is about to transpire, what is your feeling about where the world is at with respect to you, your friends and Ukrainian children?

[Veronika Sheldagaieva]

I feel that communication is sometimes hard, because you need to explain lots of context about your life, about uncertainties and so on.

To leap into uncertainty, this experience sometimes changes you, but at the same time I believe that there are always moments when you can communicate and when you can be helpful to others, like peers, so they understand this experience.

Have I answered the question correctly?

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

You have.

Let me also say that every single one of us here—and I don't presume to speak for my colleagues—admires your courage a great deal, along with your resilience and how articulate you are.

Thank you for being such a powerful voice for your generation, which has endured so much hardship, and know that the world is watching and the world is with you. I very much appreciate your testimony today.

[Veronika Sheldagaieva]

Thank you.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Mr. Kuleba, if I might turn to you, how many children would you say the Kremlin is holding hostage like Veronika and the story of Valeriia that we just heard?

[Mykola Kuleba]

Thank you so much, Mr. Majumdar, for your question.

There are around 1.6 million Ukrainian children who are living under occupation or in Russia and enduring extreme hardship with insufficient access to food, water, hygiene, health care and education.

To make matters worse, approximately 741,000 Ukrainian children have been registered in Russia since 2022. As you will remember, last year, Maria Lvova-Belova, Putin's commissioner, stated this number. Maybe now it's a bigger number, but these children and their families have been turned from their homes in Ukraine, subjected to an alien culture and denied their Ukrainian identity. How many of them are unaccompanied minors? We don't know to this day.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

It is over a million, and the genocide of the Ukrainian people and civilization 100 years after Holodomor is just a tragedy beyond anything. It's unspeakable.

So much of what we talk about in the world today is geopolitical, but in earnest, this is why you fight. This is why Ukraine fights: to restore the promise of over a million Ukrainian children—half of the people, half of the youth of the country.

[Mykola Kuleba]

Yes, that is exactly the fight. Our fight is not just against an aggressor. It is also for the survival of our identity, our culture and our future. We are fighting to ensure that our children are not brainwashed, and they are not turned into instruments of war or subjected to a foreign power.

Our children should grow up in their own homes with parents and relatives and with the ability to speak their language, to celebrate their culture and to live their lives as they choose. Russia's actions are a direct assault on the essence of who we are as Ukrainians. For the sake of our children, we must fight back.

You are right. All of their actions show signs of genocide.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Here you are on the front lines of resisting the Kremlin's project of colonialization. You mentioned medieval tyranny being imposed on the Ukrainian people.

What do you want people in Canada to know and understand about this new imperialism that the Kremlin is imposing on Ukraine? As well, what's on the line for half of your young people's future and indeed all of ours?

[Mykola Kuleba]

We need to understand that this is not just a fight for Ukraine; it is a fight for freedom and humanity. The Kremlin is not satisfied with just Ukraine. They want to extend their control, their influence and their lies across the globe. They are attempting to indoctrinate our children to create a new generation of soldiers not just for them, but for the entire world to bow to their authoritarian rule. The lessons they are teaching are aimed at erasing the identity of our children, teaching them that their homeland does not exist, that their culture is inferior and that they are part of a larger imperial project.

This same tactic was used during the Soviet Union's period, and it is being used now on an even larger scale. What should concern the world, and especially the Canadian people, is that this is just the beginning. They will not stop with Ukraine. They will target other vulnerable populations, including children in the west. Their strategy is not just to fight Ukraine, but to create chaos across the globe. Russia's imperial ambitions extend far beyond Ukraine's border. They are attempting to destabilize nations, weaken democratic societies and use children as pawns in their global power struggle.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Majumdar.

I invite Ms. Vandenbeld to take the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank all of our witnesses, especially you, Veronika, for the testimony that you're giving today. You had mentioned that you want to be helpful. I can assure you that you are being helpful by telling these horrific stories—essentially about a brainwashing of an entire generation of children. I think it's important that this be heard.

I also wanted to thank you regarding Valeriia, Olga, and the fact that you've taken her into your family.

We hear your stories, but we know how many other children are not able to testify at a committee like this to tell their stories, because they're still there. Canada has taken on all of the kidnapped children as if they were Canadian children, as consular cases. I assure you that we stand with you.

My first question is for Veronika. You talked about how you happened to be in a different school and the fate of the others in the other school who weren't able to escape like you. What is it that you want the world to do for all of those children, so much like you, but who don't have a voice? What do you want to tell us as legislators here in Canada? What do you want the world to do?

[Veronika Sheldagaieva]

Ideally, I would like for nobody to ever experience the brainwashing that is now happening in such educational institutions. Nobody should ever go and be scared every day of what they will experience that day, because it's unpredictable, when you're staying in a school in occupied territories and in camps such as Valeriia experienced.

I feel the most important thing the world can do is to help Ukraine work on spreading information, because silence is something that kills lots of people. I would like for those children to find a way, some way—earlier is always better—to escape and live a better life in their peaceful cities, because it's also hard to be an IDP or a refugee after such an experience if your city is still occupied and you're going out.

I would like to have understanding from the world that the war is not stopping. It has already been more than 10 years.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much. I think your words are going to go a long way in achieving that. Thank you so much for your courage.

I'd like to turn to you, Olga, because you're also witnessing first-hand the kind of trauma that comes from this.

We need to make sure the children are returned, but once they're returned, there's a long road for those children. Is there anything more that the world or Canada can do to support these children once they are in a safe place?

Also, then, I would ask you the same thing: What do you want the world to do to ensure these Ukrainian children are returned and that they remain Ukrainian children?