Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, go ahead, for three minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In a 2024 opinion piece that you published in The Globe and Mail, Mr. Thein, you said that funding to support measures to address forced displacement must prioritize collaboration with grassroots and diaspora networks.

How can grassroots and diaspora networks contribute more effectively when it comes to providing assistance in cases of forced displacement?

[Napas Thein]

Is it okay if I answer in English?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, of course.

[Napas Thein]

Thank you.

The role of the international diaspora is extremely important within Myanmar. The international diaspora has been responsible for involvement within Myanmar in supporting various EROs, the NUG and local organizations throughout the country. They finance them in different ways. There are many articles about that sort of financing. It's done through various things, from financial apps to cryptocurrency.

This type of financing is very important for these organizations. This is what they use, in addition to a lot of volunteer work within Myanmar and along border areas by people who are either refugees or migrants. They all use this funding to try to develop a sense of government and provide services, and also to repel the Myanmar military within their capacity.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What you're really saying is that money is put to much better use when it's sent directly to the people on the ground, rather than to large international aid organizations, where there's more bureaucracy. Did I understand you correctly?

[Napas Thein]

I'm sorry. I think my headset is not working.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Can you stop the clock, Mr. Chair? I want to make sure that Mr. Thein understands my questions.

It seems that the interpretation problem has now been resolved. I'll start over, then.

What you're really saying is that when grassroots and diaspora networks are used, money is put to much better use when it's sent directly to the people on the ground, rather than to large international aid organizations, where there's so much bureaucracy. Did I understand you correctly?

[Napas Thein]

I understand what you're asking.

From the people we spoke to on the ground, they would agree with that statement, although it does vary depending on who you ask.

Not to discredit the work of multilateral organizations and larger organizations, but many of the organizations we met in Thailand did not really receive much support outside of diaspora networks and informal networks, meaning that many people who are actively working on the ground, facing conflict and risking their lives, who are working informally with EROs and working directly within non-junta-controlled areas, depend on diaspora funding.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I think I have time for one last question, and it is for Ms. Baillat.

Which human rights are most at risk when it comes to forced displacement?

[Dr. Alice Baillat]

Thank you very much for your question.

Internal displacement affects the full range of human rights, but I would say that the first things that come to mind are the right to housing, the right to a livelihood, the right to health care and the right to education.

Numerous studies have shown that displaced children often end up out of the school system, for example. This means they are deprived of their right to education. Studies have also shown that displaced people often have trouble accessing health care.

So I would say that access to education, access to health care, access to water and food, of course, access to housing and access to livelihoods are the main rights affected by internal displacement. In any case, all human rights are affected, generally speaking.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Baillat and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I would like to invite Mr. Johns to take the floor for three minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Thein, last week the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Myanmar and other UN experts issued a press release calling for a “course correction” on Myanmar after the civilian death toll passed 6,000. I'll read an excerpt from that release, which said, “There are now 6,000 reminders that the international community is failing the people of Myanmar. It is time for a change, starting with moving this disaster out of the shadows of international attention.”

You gave us stats on the millions of people who are internally and externally displaced. Why do you believe there's been such a lack of international attention on the situation in Myanmar? What can the international community do to help bring an end to this ongoing crisis?

[Napas Thein]

There are a variety of reasons why there's not a lot of attention on Myanmar. There are many crises going on in the world, many of them closer to Canada geographically. Also, there has always been limited attention towards Myanmar. It's a very complicated crisis, and one where there are a variety of issues going on within the country—before the coup and after the coup—that make focusing on it difficult.

In response to the last part, I would say that countries need to start looking at Myanmar differently. You can't necessarily look at it as a state-to-state relationship. You have to look at it as a myriad of organizations working on the ground. They work with the people who are actively involved in improving the country and actively involved in democratic work and humanitarian work.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Dr. Baillat, can you please expand on the unique impacts and risks faced by women and girls who are internally displaced? Can you also expand a bit more on some of the promising durable solutions to displacement that you mentioned in your opening remarks?

[Dr. Alice Baillat]

Yes, sure. Thank you for your question.

Regarding the first part on the particular vulnerability of women and girls, we have observed, first of all, that they constitute the majority of IDPs.They are also particularly affected most of the time because of pre-existing vulnerabilities for various reasons—economic, but also cultural and other reasons.

What we have observed is that in many cases in displacement situations, women and girls face, for instance, a lack of safety, including because of crowded IDP camps, which leave them with very little intimacy and a safe space. Gender-based violence against women and girls is a particular concern in displacement situations. We also observed that they struggle with access to livelihoods. We know that in many situations, women and girls—women in particular—are the ones getting water and food for their family, and this access is restricted in displacement situations.

As a last example, there's also access to education. We have observed that when there is an income deduction in households experiencing displacement, there is a tendency to give priority to boys in accessing to education, meaning that girls are even more at risk of being excluded from education systems.

These are the kinds of risks and vulnerabilities that women and girls are facing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Can you wrap up, please? We've exceeded the time limit.

[Dr. Alice Baillat]

Yes, sorry.

I will just say that there is a global process called the action agenda on internal displacement, and a special adviser on solutions to internal displacement was appointed. His mandate is terminating at the end of the year. Canada was actually a co-chair of the group of friends of this UN special adviser.

It will be particularly important after next year to look at how to keep the political momentum on internal displacement going and to look at ways within the UN system, but also among governments, to keep addressing the issue of internal displacement at both global and national levels.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

I would like to thank both witnesses for being with us. Thank you for your declarations. They were very useful to this subcommittee. If you feel that you have other information to provide to the subcommittee, please do not hesitate to write to the clerk or to me.

I would now like to suspend for a few seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

We now resume the meeting.

I would like to welcome our next panel of witnesses.

We have two officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development. First, we have Bob Rae, ambassador and permanent representative of Canada to the United Nations in New York, who is appearing by video conference. We also have Matthieu Kimmell, director of the humanitarian policy division.

You each have a maximum of five minutes for your opening remarks. Afterwards, committee members will ask you a series of questions.

Welcome, Mr. Rae. Go ahead with your opening remarks.

[Bob Rae, Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations in New York, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Dear friends and former colleagues, thank you very much for your invitation.

As you well know, we are living in disastrous times. In 2024, there are 122 million forcibly displaced persons, including 47 million refugees. It's important to remember that these are not just numbers. These are human beings. We're talking about families that are being torn apart and communities that are shattered. It's happening all over the world, on every continent.

In Sudan, for example, there are 8.6 million forcibly displaced people within the country, while 3.2 million have fled to neighbouring countries.

Since 2011, the conflict in Syria has displaced over 7.2 million Syrians and created 6.2 million refugees. These are extraordinary situations.

In Gaza, nearly two million people have been displaced, and more than 100,000 people have been injured or killed in the war. Unfortunately, the war continues.

Mr. Thein, whom I know well, told you about the situation facing more than one million Rohingya. People living in camps in Bangladesh face the constant risk of poverty, disease, violence and flooding.

In the Americas, we have the situation in Venezuela.

It's important to remember that displaced persons and refugees are subjected to dangerous journeys, forced to live in overcrowded camps and have limited access to basic services. They feel a constant sense of insecurity. Women and children are particularly vulnerable to sexual violence, forced marriage, human trafficking and exploitation. It's also important to remember that more than 7.2 million young people are not going to school.

We have our work cut out for us. Frankly, this is an unprecedented situation. The situation is worse than it has ever been in recent years.

It's also important to understand that the response to the crisis is complex and requires a multi-faceted approach.

Through our partnership with UNHCR, IOM, Canadian NGOs, international NGOs and community organizations working on the ground, we've provided over a billion dollars in humanitarian assistance since 2023. That's an unprecedented number to support those affected by conflict and natural disasters. We've also started a three-year international Together for Learning campaign that focuses on the question of what happens to kids who don't get access to education.

We're working on looking at climate finance investments. We're working with the World Bank to see what more we can do with the IMF to see how to respond to fragile states. We're supporting the integration of refugees into national systems in Colombia and other places, and we're working through the World Bank's global concessional financing facility in Jordan, Lebanon and Ecuador to help middle-income countries access concessional financing to support refugees.

Our efforts in Gaza continue at the UN on a daily basis as we call for civilian protection, an immediate ceasefire and a resolution to the conflict that continues to displace millions, unfortunately. Finally, we welcome the most vulnerable here, including women and girls, ethnic and religious minorities, LGBTQI members and human rights defenders.

I can't stress strongly enough that more needs to be done. I had the pleasure of meeting with your colleagues in the other place. Their report has come out, and I'm looking forward very much to working with them given their report.

In assuming the presidency of ECOSOC this year, I've made the crisis of displacement a personal priority. We're going to work with states to ensure we promote better-managed migration systems and have strong adherence to the international protection regime. As part of its 2025 G7 presidency, Canada will continue to address the myriad geopolitical crises rocking our world. The protection of civilians, I can assure you, is going to be at the centre of this commitment.

We need to find new ways to support forcibly displaced people and their host communities, address root causes and propose durable solutions. We must ensure that our efforts are always informed by the voices of those who are displaced—by refugees and those who are displaced either within a country or beyond the borders of a country. We must listen to them, include them and make sure we amplify their voices.

Thank you so much for this chance. I look forward to answering questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Rae. That is excellent.

Thank you, Mr. Matthieu Kimmell. Due to the fact that you don't have a declaration, we can give our colleagues one minute extra, or a minute and a half extra in the case of Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and Mr. Johns.

Now we'll go to questions and answers. We will start with Mr. Majumdar.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for showing up here for our study.

Ambassador Rae, you mentioned Gaza as well as a series of other issues with respect to the forced migration refugee crisis. When we think about these types of issues, as you well know, disputed borders, international laws, compacts between countries and negotiations all compel a refugee and migration crisis, in large part. At the United Nations, you voted initially, on behalf of this government, against Israel, and in a hot mic moment, you got caught saying, “We’ll see how that flies.”

Let me ask you this: How has it been flying?

[Bob Rae]

Mr. Majumdar, as you well know, vote decisions are taken by the Government of Canada. These are not votes taken against any country and certainly not against Israel. The policies that Canada has adopted are based on reason, on international law and on the need for a two-state solution, for a political path away from where we are today and for an urgent response to the depth of the crisis in Gaza, which I think most people would recognize. Certainly, all the people working in the field, from UNICEF to the World Food Programme, and all the agencies working in the region are telling us this is one of the worst and most serious humanitarian situations that has been faced.

I appreciate your question.