Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 1st, 2026

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much, all of you, for very alarming testimony about the situation of children.

I want to ask, particularly Dr. Whitman, about child soldiers.

Before I do that, I'd like to come back, Ms. Ullah, to a question that you just answered about sexual violence and the lack of support for sexual and reproductive health and rights.

What happens to the babies who are born into these situations? It seems, if we're talking about children, the teenage girls are being forced into situations where they're having children, and then we have another generation of children. What is happening to those babies?

[Yasmin Ullah]

It's very unclear at the moment what happens to all of them. In some cases, we have contact with these families. A lot of the time, not only are these women and girls who have given birth to these children shunned from their families, but the children are also shunned. We have a lot of unaccompanied minors within the refugee camps and across southeast Asia whom we are working very hard to try to support.

A lot of the time, we are also leaving the protection work or the mitigation work to the national domestic policy. I think that there is a better way to go about doing it. Canada is situated in a better place, as a donor country, to be able to push for more collaboration. There needs to be an ASEAN-wide policy toward refugees, even if a country has not ratified the refugee convention.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That's very good advice. Thank you for that.

I do want to go to you, Dr. Whitman, because you did mention the Vancouver principles and some of Canada's leadership. I know the Dallaire Institute has done incredible work on child soldiers. We know, and we just heard from the previous answer, that when it's children who are involved, this is not just about individuals. It's about the next generation and the entire society.

What can be done for the rehabilitation of the child soldiers? I know that some of the other witnesses talked about children being forced into conflict roles. How does one recover from that if an entire generation has been forced into such violence?

[Shelly Whitman]

Rehabilitation and demobilization efforts are extremely important. They're one part of the puzzle that has to be addressed.

In terms of rehabilitation, quite often there are not enough resources. We don't have enough mental health support workers or psychosocial support workers. The funding is often short-term. It needs to be longer-term. We also need more longitudinal studies to truly understand the long-term impacts. There are some colleagues I've worked with, like Myriam Denov from McGill, who have done some incredible work in Sierra Leone for a long time. Generally, the resource issue is a major issue, and it's going to be even more of an issue given the comments we've just heard about the reduced funding.

While that's really important, there are examples, such as the places in Colombia we are working with, where there are state-funded organizations and institutes that have longer-term approaches to rehabilitation. They're also trying to focus on prevention at the same time, ensuring that those children who have had the experience of being in the armed groups are also helping to ensure that others aren't. Here I want to say that some of the most powerful individuals I've worked with have used that experience for good, which helps in a very important way for their own healing too.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

Turning to Ukraine, Mr. Kuleba, obviously it's a different situation there because not only do you now have children being forced into conflict roles, but they are also being forced to fight against their own people. I know Canada has done quite a bit on the returns, but I'd ask you that question about the mental health of those children once they are returned and how we can ensure their reintegration afterwards.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Make it a quick answer, please. You have 10 more seconds.

[Mykola Kuleba]

Thank you so much.

It's a really important question because many of these children have been indoctrinated, radicalized and programmed. That's why we now have this deprogramming program and the deradicalization programs on the ground, as this is a huge threat for these kids. We have psychologists, case managers and social workers who work 24-7 with these kids. I can give you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, sir.

Now I would like to invite Ms. Kronis to take the floor for five minutes.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

From the various testimonies, we've heard a lot about how children get caught up. We've heard about slavery. We've heard about trafficking. We've heard about forced pregnancies, child soldiers, abuse, forced labour and kidnapping, the fact that children often get passed on, the isolation and the separation from families. We've also heard a little bit about what happens after they're returned.

I'd like to use my time to give each of you about a minute to speak to what life is like for a child who is caught up in this. There's no way to have people here, but historically, this isn't a new phenomenon. Child soldiers are not a new phenomenon, but there is a lot that's changed because of the digital age. The experiences are different. The long-term effects are different. It's much harder to easily get back and be absorbed. I'd like to give each of you a chance to speak to that.

[Yasmin Ullah]

Thank you so much.

It's very difficult to try to explain such an encompassing experience as being a Rohingya child living in such restrictive conditions. I remember having different conversations with a lot of young men and young women in the camps across Bangladesh and across southeast Asia. They describe the experience as being drowned and not being able to swim. I think that's probably the best way I could describe being a Rohingya child, stuck in limbo.

Thank you.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Can we have someone on the screen....?

[Shelly Whitman]

I'll start.

I want to give you an experience from Mexico. I was speaking with some children who were in cartels. They were about 12 or 13 years old. What I found incredibly disturbing was the lack of hope that they had. I always say to everyone that when children express this lack of hope, then that is where we have a lot of work to do because they won't see a pathway out. I think this is something around the world that we have to take note of.

I also want to highlight that in terms of their experiences, they're looking to all of us to listen to their experiences and act on them. Right now, we're not doing enough action. We need to demonstrate more fully how important they are, in order to be able to address some of the biggest global challenges we have in this world.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Go ahead.

[Zineb Riboua]

First of all, thank you very much for the question. As a researcher, I have had the opportunity to speak to a lot of people who fled to different countries, from the Middle East and north Africa.

One thing that constantly comes up is about how the indoctrination is deep—the psychological campaigns. Obviously they were children, so it's very hard to escape that. However, the idea that they could think beyond the barriers, especially the ones we can see with jihadism and terrorism, for example, and that these are the only ways one can find happiness and can prosper.... I think that psychological barrier, that cognitive warfare that is being done to children, is very important to combat.

It can be combatted in different ways. Having a good, more comprehensive strategy is one of those ways. Obviously, expanding and giving alternatives to the families, to those who send their children, is also one of the ways that I think about.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I want to make sure Mr. Kuleba also gets a chance.

Just for the people who are watching this at home, what is it like for these kids?

[Mykola Kuleba]

I will tell you about the kids who have been rescued. Russian soldiers go into kindergartens handling weapons with five- and six-year-old kids. There are many children telling us that they're not schools anymore. They are military schools. Russian soldiers come in, and they have special military lessons for these children. Children are dressed in military uniforms. They're taking these kids to military camps from the age of 12. From age 14, they're sending them to military academies. They're telling all of the children who are 16 and 17 years old that 18 is the conscription age. It's the deadline. It's a deadline because all of them understand they will die on the battlefield.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

I invite Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe to take the floor for five minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Kuleba, in November, the Ukrainian National Resistance Centre confirmed the existence of plans to use children as cheap labour and as a propaganda tool. In particular, it is reported that teenagers deemed troublesome by the occupying forces are forced to go to labour camps.

If possible, can you explain to us what these labour camps are like and how this can be considered forced labour?

[Mykola Kuleba]

It's more about re-education camps and military camps. Russia has these camps for children from occupied territories, and thousands of children go there.

There was one 15-year-old girl who testified that, first, thousands of these kids were brought to a warehouse packed with military uniforms for children. They took them to dig trenches. Many children are digging trenches in occupied territories. It's normal work for these kids. One 12-year-old boy said that Russian soldiers took him, every day, to dig trenches. Every night, he went back to dig it back.... I don't know this English word. It wasn't normal for him, though, because he didn't want to dig trenches for Russian soldiers.

In these military camps, they are not only handling weapons but also throwing grenades. They're destroying tanks. They're managing drones. During their months in the military camps, Russian soldiers are giving them certificates for the Russian army. It's not only for labour. It's more about the militarization of these children and using them as the spoils of war.

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much for your response, Mr. Kuleba.

Ms. Ullah, one issue people don't talk about enough is public opinion among populations that interact with the Rohingya, populations such as ordinary citizens of Bangladesh or Thailand.

Is their perception of the Rohingya people positive or negative, and how is that currently affecting Rohingya children—both boys and girls?

[Yasmin Ullah]

Thank you so much for raising that.

Our organization has been working really hard to try to reverse some of the hate narratives that have happened. What we found in our study, since 2024, was that the kind of hate speech that emerged within southeast Asia, in the past two to three years, echoed the exact kinds of hate narratives that the Myanmar military junta used leading up to the Rohingya genocide in 2017—it was to justify it.

Unfortunately, this has caused a lot of the public opinion to shift towards deportation of the Rohingya and pushing back the Rohingya. We saw a few boats arrive at the shores in Aceh, Indonesia, and Malaysia, and they were pushed back. That resulted in children's deaths because they were dehydrated. These boat journeys take from about two weeks to two months. A lot of times, some of these boats were also lost. The engines died, or the traffickers ran away. People are exploited on board the boats while they're travelling on the high sea. Later on, they're met with protests from the locals, saying that they're not welcome, even though they're genocide survivors.

States often lean towards public opinion. I've had a chance to sit down with policy-makers from the current ruling party in Malaysia, who told me to talk to China and the Myanmar military junta to see how many of us they will take back because they can no longer receive or take care of Rohingyas in the country. That's the level of hostility that has existed in southeast Asia.

Again, as I've mentioned, the ASEAN does not have a one-size-fits-all or refugee policy that is encompassing enough to accept and integrate the Rohingya or other refugees into southeast Asia. That actually causes a lot more problems because it leaves a lot of people in the public confused about when they're going to leave and how they're going to continue living alongside locals. I think that is the root cause of all of this hate speech. A lot of politicians also use it as a way to win elections, to securitize and to show up as heroes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'd like to ask one last question. It will be brief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Okay.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a supplementary question.

Within the Bangladeshi diaspora here in Canada, is that perception the same?

Do you think there's more openness among members of the Bangladeshi diaspora toward the Rohingya here on Canadian soil?