Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 24th, 2025

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for their remarks, especially Ms. Araa.

Ms. Elfil, thank you for joining us today. The committee needs to hear from you.

I'm not here to play politics. We're here to analyze a real situation objectively. We're talking about Iran, which backs the Sudanese Armed Forces, and the United Arab Emirates, which backs the Rapid Support Forces.

Recently, Mr. Carney visited the United Arab Emirates to sign contracts worth tens of billions of dollars. What message does this send about the crisis in Sudan?

My question is for Mr. Ali and Mr. Diamond.

[Yonah Diamond]

It was regarding an agreement to...? Did you say it was regarding immigration?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'll repeat my question. What message does Mr. Carney's recent mission, the contracts with the United Arab Emirates worth tens of billions of dollars, send about the crisis in Sudan?

[Yonah Diamond]

We've been trying to publicly speak out about these deals at least being conditioned on the U.A.E. demonstrating that it's ending its support for the RSF. To our understanding, that hasn't yet been brought up in these deals or in the readout from Prime Minister Carney's meeting with the Emirati leaders.

He knows exactly what they are doing. This is very public. Trade should not be separated from the defence of human rights and the protection of a population facing destruction, especially when you're forming policy based on values.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I understand.

You spoke about genocide in your remarks. I imagine that you're basing this claim on evidence or trends. Logically, isn't there a clear issue when we see a Canadian Prime Minister shaking hands with a leader who backs a form of genocide financing?

[Yonah Diamond]

Absolutely. I completely agree with you.

This is a regime that controls over $2.5 trillion, they estimate, in sovereign wealth, so when the Prime Minister came back with a $1-billion deal and failed to mention Sudan, despite knowing of the U.A.E.'s campaign to support the RSF.... Regarding the U.A.E.'s role, it's not us saying this. It's corroborated by a UN panel of experts, investigative reporting, the intelligence community and satellite imagery analyses. The RSF officers themselves admit that the U.A.E. is serving as the main backer.

This is a matter of one of the major power brokers, too, who has prevented any efforts at humanitarian relief and efforts to end the siege within their role in the so-called Quad, which is the power broking....

The U.A.E.'s role is that they are simply accomplices to this genocide, so if someone shakes hands with accomplices to genocide, let the public decide whether or not that's based on principles.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Explain why you recommend that Canada formally condemn or recognize the ongoing genocide in Sudan.

[Mutasim Ali]

Since the release of our report in 2024, we've been reaching out to states to make a genocide determination, but also to act. Even before the release of our report, we spearheaded about 100 international experts concluding that there was an imminent risk or serious risk of genocide. The idea was to say that the international community has a legal duty to prevent.... That's the whole idea of the genocide convention, basically.

I think a genocide determination is critical. Number one is the acknowledgement of the victims' grievances—this is setting the records—but number two is to prevent destruction of additional communities.

I think Canada needs to follow suit, as the U.S. did. We will continue to engage with the Canadian government and other governments to make the same determination, because the facts are really clear and the law is clear, so I think a genocide determination is imperative.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The facts are quite clear. Today, you're asking the committee to recognize that a genocide is under way, that a genocide already took place in Darfur in 2003 and that the same movie is playing out. Some say that it's even more terrible. This is what I want to emphasize. I have the feeling that I'll likely be the only one to say this today.

It's Monday. Just last week, Mr. Carney went to the United Arab Emirates to shake hands with its leader and to sign $90 billion worth of contracts with that country. This is happening as we hold these committee meetings. How do you expect me to convince my colleagues on either side of the House to recognize a genocide if our Prime Minister goes around that country shaking hands and signing contracts worth astronomical amounts?

I welcome recommendations from our analysts. However, how can I convince my colleagues that it makes absolutely no sense for the Prime Minister to go and shake hands with a person who, as we know, is funding a genocide in Sudan?

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Excuse me, but the time is up. We're over by almost 50 seconds. I'm sorry. Perhaps we can hear an answer later on.

Now I would like to invite Madame Kronis to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to address my first question to Mr. Omer.

The civil war in Sudan has obviously been a complete catastrophe for the Sudanese people. I just want to pause to acknowledge the immense pain of a number of our witnesses here today.

Ms. Elfil, Mr. Ali and Ms. Araa, I want to give you my very sincere condolences for the personal losses you've experienced and the losses you've experienced in your communities.

Mr. Omer, a number of witnesses have alluded to there being foreign interests with a stake in this tragedy. Could you elaborate a little bit on whose interests are served by keeping Sudan at war with itself?

[Khalid Omer]

I think the only victims of all this are the Sudanese. On the start of this war, as I said, it is a power struggle between two factions that both aborted the transition and then tore the country apart by this war. As happens in any civil war anywhere in the world, this of course will open the door for the external intervention.

Also, if the aim is to end the suffering of the Sudanese people, all kinds of external support to the fighting sides should be stopped. That's why we keep calling for the arms embargo to be extended to all of Sudan and for coordinated international pressure on all sides to stop financing or supporting any of the two fighting sides.

This is the road to stop the war, but as I said, we keep speaking about one side of the warring parties and neglecting completely what the other side is doing. This actually is a recipe for the continuation of the war and the continuation of the suffering of the Sudanese people.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Can you explain and elaborate a bit on how the interests of regional powers on all sides have shaped this conflict?

[Khalid Omer]

Of course. The division in the region and in the world around Sudan is not only in neglecting what's happening in Sudan, but also the division in the regions around Sudan.... Some sides are supporting SAF, and some sides are supporting the RSF. It is a very difficult mission for the regional actors to agree on a path forward. That, as well, contributes to the continuation of the war.

Now there is a unique opportunity that has emerged, which is the Quad statement of September 12. Number one, it has unified the region and the world around a very clear plan forward, starting with a humanitarian truce to accelerate the delivery of humanitarian aid to the Sudanese people and then leading to a negotiated solution. It has all been supported by the UN, the AU, the IGAD, the Arab League, etc. This opportunity should not be missed. This is the way to stop the bleeding in Sudan.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

As we have that opportunity in front of us, I'm wondering again, just to continue with you, Mr. Omer, what's getting in the way of that. Are there economic motivations, such as control over mining, trade routes or land, that are driving external involvement? I suppose what I'm trying to get at is what's really at stake in Sudan.

[Khalid Omer]

I think this is a very long story, but the corrupted regimes of Sudan actually opened the door for international and regional actors to exploit the resources of Sudan. We are speaking about the Bashir regime, which had the revenue from the oil, which was $1 billion. That could build a different Sudan. The deal that has been done by the Bashir regime and the Chinese actually takes Sudan to poverty, not to prosperity.

To make the Sudanese make use of their resources, to close the road on any kind of exploitation, this needs to start with Sudan first: how to have good governance, how to end the long decades of military rule and how to have a civilian model. This civilian model actually happened in those two years between 2019 and 2021. At that time, there were no civil wars. There was no corruption. There was no talk about regional exploitation. There was co-operation and coordination between Sudan and its regional neighbours. This is the model Sudan needs in order to end any kind of ill practices from inside or outside Sudan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madame Kronis.

Now I invite Madame Vandenbeld to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for the testimony, particularly those of you who have had personal tragedies in your own lives and with your families.

I'd like to start my questions with Ms. Sadia Araa.

You said something in your testimony that I think is really important. You said that especially in El Fasher, where you were born and grew up, women hold the communities together. We look at women as victims, quite often, but I just wonder what the role of women is in trying to build the peace. How can the international community help women to make sure they are part of that?

We know that any peace agreement or any governance structure is more sustainable when women in local communities have a say in what those agreements are. I wonder if you could talk about that and also about civil society. I know that there's a very strong civil society. How can we support that and the women's groups that are there?

[Sadia Araa]

Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld, for giving me the opportunity to talk.

We know that everywhere—not just in Sudan and not just in El Fasher, but in any community around the world—women are the pillars of the community. If you go into a home where a wife is sick, the husband will be sick. Women are everything, especially in Darfur. They're holding the community. They're raising the kids. During rainy season, they go and do their crops. That's no longer. After 2023, whenever women go outside to do any activity, it's to bring food security.

We have the best planet to put anything.... They call Sudan the basket of the world. You can grow anything. We have the water. We have the Nile River. We have rich soil. We have the rainy season.

Personally, when my mom goes to do farming, we can bring in almost 100 bags of food. It would fill a truck. We don't even have space to put it in. With that, you make food security for yourself and for your family. If you don't have something, you go to the market and you buy it. You take your kids.

Personally, from my mom's farming, I went to school. The first time I boarded a plane, I went to Khartoum university to study archaeology. I was the first woman in West Darfur to study that subject.

Women give their kids their way of life. If you break a woman, the whole community is broken because a broken woman cannot raise a good child. If you cannot support yourself, you cannot support a person near you, including your own child.

How are we going to go forward to empower the women?

The Sudanese government let this happen. Let's make all those people in the RSF accountable for what they did. They terrorized the women and they raped the kids. They're even raping one-year-old children.

If you're not secure enough, you cannot do anything. How we empower them is to give them the opportunity. Open their shops. Let them do things so that they're comfortable and so they can raise a good community.

This is what I think you can do to empower women.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that very much.

I only have one minute left, and I do want to ask Mr. Diamond a question about what he said about the predictability.

It's highly disturbing, because we hear about this over and over again. We heard this in Rwanda and we've heard this in other places. It starts with, as you put it, “dehumanization campaigns”. There are plenty of warnings, and those kinds of dehumanization campaigns precede the violence.

You were warning that there are circumstances right now where you're seeing those alarm bells. Could you perhaps elaborate on that?

[Yonah Diamond]

Thank you, Anita.

In some ways, to us it feels too late, because two years ago we issued a statement from over 100 experts around the world about the imminence of genocidal massacres in El Fasher. That basically has materialized. It's happening right now and it's still being documented by satellite imagery analyses.

Anyone who survives and tries to make the harrowing journey outside of El Fasher will tell similar stories about how men and boys are being separated to be mass executed and women are being subjected to systematic rape and sexual violence of the worst, most extreme form.

When we talk about genocide as being kind of a low-hanging step for parliamentarians to ask.... This goes back over two decades. It's actually the only situation in which the International Criminal Court has issued a charge for genocide. It's the Darfur context. UN experts are referring to this as genocide.

This is extremely not a controversial ask. It's not even about naming external actors, when you give recognition to these communities that have gone so long without that recognition.

I don't know if Mutasim wants to add anything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Elfil, you spoke earlier about how Canada should handle immigration and other issues. Since you know this better than anyone, I would like to hear how the Sudanese‑Canadian diaspora reacted to Mr. Carney's trip to the United Arab Emirates and the contracts that he signed there.

[Ranya Elfil]

It is with concern, I would say.

We understand that Canada is making lot of effort to expand who we trade with. We appreciate that, but it does not have to be at the expense of our values and our international human rights principles. We want transparency that this trade deal does not include arms trade and that there was a discussion around these concerns, because we have concerns about how the U.A.E. has been supporting RSF. We hope that has been shared at the discussion table.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Ali from the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights, in your opinion, what international political or legal tools should be used in the current crisis in Sudan, but aren't being used?