Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 8th, 2025

[Dimon Liu]

It's because of the nature of the China policy. Great Britain, the British Empire, adopted a commercial approach to its China policy, beginning in 1793. Its aim was to open the vast China market to make vast amounts of profit. They did not see Chinese people as human beings but only as workers or consumers. When I was studying in Great Britain, I ran into comments and read in books that a good Chinaman was a dead Chinaman. It was not very humane.

So they do not see. It's not because they don't have eyes. It's because they are wearing goggles or dollar signs.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you for that.

When you think about the next period of time—the next quarter or two, or the winter this year and the spring next year—as the Chinese economy worsens, what implications will these consequences of internal displacement have for the CCP in Beijing?

[Dimon Liu]

For 2,000 years, social instability in China has caused the collapse of many ruling regimes in China. At this moment, Xi Jinping will either initiate a war, because he needs a war economy, or the CCP regime will collapse under the weight of social instability. It is fifty-fifty.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

We're talking about very significant consequences for what that might mean for this geography of Asia and for where the people of Asia may end up as a result of this, especially from China internally and externally. That's a massively unstable event.

When you take a step back, why have these massive human rights abuses in China worked so advantageously for the CCP for so long?

[Dimon Liu]

Again, it's because of the commercial approach to China, the policy that the world adopted, unfortunately, from the British model. It's because they want to make profits. For instance, they committed the June 4 Beijing massacre. Within the month, Scowcroft went to Beijing to make nice with the butcher of Beijing and assure Beijing that the most favoured nation status was safe.

They see that they can kill, murder and abuse. Western democracies are still supporting them by opening their markets, giving them money and giving them prestige. President Trump is going to China to meet with Xi Jinping, who is on the verge of either collapsing or initiating war.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I don't have too much time. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

[Dimon Liu]

Civilized societies are based on values, and if democracy is competing with tyranny on interests, as it is doing now, it will lose. If democracy is competing with tyranny on values, democracy will win.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Liu.

I invite Ms. Dhillon to take the floor for three minutes this round please.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with Ms. Maulfair.

We were talking about statistics. Can you talk to us about how many women and children are displaced, out of the sum you've mentioned?

[Tracey Maulfair]

I don't have the exact figure off the top of my head, but typically, over 60% of the displaced people are women and children.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

They're very vulnerable, then, to trafficking and....

[Tracey Maulfair]

Yes, 100%. They are usually the most vulnerable.

In certain situations, up to half of the displaced people are children. This was the case in Lebanon, where I last was, three years ago. I understand it's also the case in the Sudan conflict.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Were both groups internally displaced or also trying to...?

[Tracey Maulfair]

No, in Lebanon they were refugees. In Sudan, they're both internally displaced people and refugees.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

We've been speaking about climate change. There are certain criteria to be a refugee: race, religion, nationality, membership in a group or political opinions. What different types of refugees are there these days, with the evolution of technology and with climate change? Can you talk to us about that please?

[Tracey Maulfair]

These things, most of the time, don't happen in a vacuum. With the biggest displacement crises, over 80% of them are climate-vulnerable countries. We're talking about Afghanistan, Sudan and Syria. All of these are climate-vulnerable countries anyway, so it's an exacerbation.

Quite often, a climate event happens, and people may move temporarily. If violence or other things happen, people move usually for a bit longer term, but usually, we don't see these things as isolated incidents. If it is an isolated climate incident, then often, people will return faster if the development assistance and the rebuilding happen. The more protracted situations are often the violence and the persecution that we're talking about here.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Basically, it's something that has continued for decades—the political violence....

[Tracey Maulfair]

Exactly. Again, the solutions are the root causes and peace, as we keep coming back to today.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you so much. I think we're out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Dhillon.

I invite Mr. Amarjeet Gill to take the floor for three minutes please.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for coming here and for their testimonies.

Ms. Liu, in your opinion, would you say that Canada has done enough work in helping displaced persons in China?

[Dimon Liu]

I don't think most human rights activists are even aware of the situation, and certainly most governments aren't. I don't think that anything has been done for them.

[Amarjeet Gill, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

What next steps forward should be taken?

[Dimon Liu]

The first step is to gain knowledge. Without knowledge there's very little we can do.

The second is that our human rights policies cannot just be virtue signalling; they have to be effective. For instance, for now, human rights policies in most western countries are focusing on the periphery of China—Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan. The periphery is important, and Xinjiang people are being abused very badly, but they only comprise less than 5% of China's population.

When the Soviet Union had its captive nation approach, it comprised about 60% of the population—5% of the population is not going to move China. You have to adopt the correct policy. You have to move from a commercial approach to a China policy. Without doing those two, there's very little that can be done. It is the Chinese people who have the numbers to overwhelm the guns. They can bring down an abusive regime, and they have done so for 2,000 years. The Confucian tradition gave the Chinese people the right to rebel, which is popularly known as the Mandate of Heaven. They can withdraw their consent to be ruled, but not when the western democracy is continually subsidizing the tyranny regime in China, propping them up as George Bush Sr. did, as Bill Clinton did, as Richard Nixon did, as Obama did, as Biden did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

The time is up. Thank you.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have three minutes.