International Trade Committee on July 13th, 2006

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I know how much they want to deal with this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Eyking was first, I believe.

Go ahead, Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I think the intent of our knowing more about the agreement is well noted, but I think we can have it when the minister comes here, and he can have his staff here to support him and tell us what the agreement is when he comes here on July 31.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We'll go next to Monsieur LeBlanc.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chairman, that is precisely why the minister will be the lead-off witness. If his staff or his departmental officials have suggestions as to witnesses, perhaps you could circulate them, Mr. Chair, to members of the committee, and on July 31 we can take a few minutes in that long day to see if we want to adjust the list for August 21. I think the minister is in a good position.

What we need to understand, Mr. Chairman, is why on April 27 there was a certain set of circumstances that gave rise to a number of reactions, and then on July 1, in our view, there were substantive changes, and the minister is now basically standing alone, saying, “This is great for the industry”. That's the process we need to understand, and that's why it's appropriate that he lead off on July 31.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Monsieur LeBlanc.

Monsieur Paquette, and then Ms. Guergis.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

If the Minister were available on July 18th, I would have no objection to our meeting with him then. However, we know full well that this is a highly political issue. Consequently, officials will say they can't answer certain questions and that it is up to the Minister to respond. The individual parties may well ask officials to hold briefing sessions, but what we want to hear are the Minister's political answers, because we're already aware of the technicalities and of the various interpretations of the agreement. However, we do not know what the Minister thinks.

For example, we have heard that the Vienna Convention is inferior to what has been negotiated in this case, since it provides for a two to three year opt-out period. In fact, nothing in the Vienna Convention provides for the agreement to be terminated other than through agreement between the two parties. I don't know where the Minister got his information, but I would really like to know. Departmental officials will not be in a position to tell us why Mr. Bernier, in particular, has been spreading that bit of misinformation.

In my opinion, every party should already have received a briefing, but it's the Minister we are interested in hearing from in committee. We can easily organize briefing sessions in the coming days. I will therefore vote against this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Merci, Monsieur Paquette.

Ms. Guergis, followed by Mr. Julian, and Mr. Jaffer after him.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I support the motion. In the past we've heard from departmental officials as well as the minister. I don't know why we would be opposed to hearing from departmental officials now in addition to the minister. We've had the minster here two or three times. He's said he is willing to come back at any time, and he's coming at his first availability again. We very much appreciate him always coming at any request that comes from this committee.

I don't understand why all of a sudden we're opposed to working on this. It was important to call us all back here today. In fact, I cancelled a trip to come back here because it was so important for me to be here. I don't understand why we can't sit next Tuesday. I understand Mr. Julian has a trip, and it was his motion to call us back here now, so perhaps he would consider cancelling his trip so we can come back and have a briefing by the departmental officials.

We know we have a legal text now, which is considerably different from what we had before. The departmental officials could take us through the legal text, which I think is extremely important. If we're very serious about this, which I know we all are around the table, then I can't see why we wouldn't meet on Tuesday.

I am very much in support of this motion and I am ready, willing, and able to work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Some of us on this side of the table have read through the document, we've had our briefings, and we've talked with industry. We're ready and willing to question the minister. We don't need a technical briefing from the ministry. We've actually spoken to industry officials, we know what's in the agreement, and we know the concessions that have been made and how substantially different this is from even the framework agreement on April 27. We're ready to go.

It's unfortunate that the minister is not available until July 31, but we've adopted a motion to sit on July 31. I would encourage members of the Conservative Party to read the document and get the briefing required, because that information will be helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Jaffer, you're up next.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

We're hearing a couple of different stories from Mr. Julian. He said he's talked to industry, and they're ready to get the minister...yet he's put forward a huge list of industry people he wants to hear from again on this agreement.

Clearly the official opposition can agree with this point, that a minister's time is limited. If we had the opportunity to question officials on this particular agreement, it would allow for a more productive meeting with the minister during the course of his time, which I think is going to be limited to two hours, plus we're going to have a number of other witnesses.

If this continues to grow, unless you propose that we meet until the late night hours during those two dates that we've proposed...all I'm saying is that we wouldn't mind an opportunity to have that technical briefing to get a lot of the questions out, so that when the minister does come, with the limited time he has, it's going to be fine-tuned. Again, I think my colleague said it: that's a normal procedure. And I don't see why the opposition would try to hold that up, especially for members of the committee who want to have that briefing.

I propose we have a vote on this, because clearly those who don't want to be there don't have to be there, but they don't have to stop the process from going ahead.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

They just want to play political games.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Paquette.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I have an amendment to move, Mr. Chairman. We are not opposed to the idea of officials briefing the Committee, but we do not believe that will be particularly useful if the Minister is not here. So, we would like the Minister and senior officials to be invited to appear on July 18th for a briefing on the agreement. I am prepared to come, but only if the Minister appears. I don't want to waste my time listening to officials say they cannot answer our questions and that we have to put them directly to the Minister.

So, I would like to move an amendment to state that both the Minister and senior officials be invited to meet with the Standing Committee on International Trade on July 18th.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Merci, Monsieur Paquette.

Mr. Menzies.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you.

I would like to point out that there have been a lot of statements, and I'll be very kind and call them erroneous statements. One such comment is that the minister is standing alone on this agreement. That should be stricken from the record of this meeting because that is an absolute false statement. For someone from this committee to suggest that the government is not doing its job, that the government members of this committee have not read this report, I find that absolutely repugnant and unacceptable behaviour by a member of this committee. We're all working hard. We're all here for the right reason. Let's keep it honest, let's keep the comments realistic, and let's move on with this thing.

We need to get the minister here. I'm absolutely in support of the motion, and I will speak to this motion. We need the government officials to obviously brief this committee, because even though Mr. Julian says he has read it, he obviously doesn't understand the benefits of the improvements that have come about since that original agreement. So I think it's absolutely necessary that we have a briefing for the committee first.

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I thought I called for the vote. When I finished my comments, I said let's get a vote on this. I don't know how long we need to debate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

It's up to the chair. We have two more people to be heard from, as far as I know, and then we'll call for the vote, unless somebody indicates that they really must speak to it.

Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I used to be PS to trade, and I know the minister is very busy. He's been in Geneva, he's doing a lot of trade talks, and he's probably very busy in his riding right now, so I don't think it's fair to ask him to come here on July 18. I think he's committed to coming here on July 31, and we should go with that. That's what we should stick with, in all fairness to him.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

That, of course, Mr. Eyking, isn't in the motion. The motion is to have the departmental officials--

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

That's right. So I think the motion for July 18 is not necessary because he's coming on July 31.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay.

Finally, Ms. Guergis.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

First, I want to point out that I think we, again, on the government side know that no matter what we bring up or talk about, you guys are going to band together and vote it down, so let's just get that--