International Trade Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

Evidence of meeting #33 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-24, An Act to impose a charge on the export of certain softwood lumber products to the United States and a charge on refunds of certain duty deposits paid to the United States, to authorize certain payments, to amend the Export and Import Permits Act and to amend other Acts as a consequence

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Robertson Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Dennis Seebach Director, Administration and Technology Services, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

John Clifford Counsel, Trade Law Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

Ron Hagmann Manager, Softwood Lumber, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

9:40 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

Assuming they didn't know they had to pay the charge and an assessment was raised on them, they would have 90 days from the date of the notice of assessment to file an objection with the minister. Subsequent to that, the minister of course will consider whether the assessment will be confirmed or not.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

How long does the minister have to reply to that?

October 26th, 2006 / 9:40 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

I believe within 90 days the minister is supposed to reply.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

The minister makes that decision arbitrarily?

9:40 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

Arbitrarily, but the appeals branch of the Canada Revenue Agency is really an independent branch and they will consider the facts independently of what any auditor did to assess the amount in the first place.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

If the company still disagrees?

9:40 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

If the minister confirms the assessment then after that time period the company can then proceed to the Tax Court of Canada, and then of course the court system will take over at that point.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

What is the average period of time for decisions to be rendered in the Tax Court?

9:40 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

I would say it's quite some time. To be honest, before a hearing gets made I would suggest it's several months, if not more than that. Unfortunately, that's not within CRA's control. The agenda is set by the Tax Court.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Would six months be a reasonable approximation of what the average is?

9:40 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

I would expect it may actually even take longer.

9:40 a.m.

A voice

About a year.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

A year, okay.

In the case where we have this charge imposed and the company is forced to pay it but they disagree, their first recourse is the minister. But beyond that, they're looking at over a year before they can even have the assessment--

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Ms. Negus, just for clarity, this is standard procedure and it isn't anything special for this act, is it?

9:45 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

Absolutely not. This is the way CRA does business.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian, just so know.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

However, the special charge of course is not ordinary in any sense of the word; it's quite extraordinary. My point is, and I think it's well taken, you have this special charge that is imposed, and essentially a company that sees that special charge imposed is forced to pay it before they can see any money coming back through the taxpayers on EDC, and then it has an appeal process that conceivably would take over a year. That's the important point, I think, for this committee to know as we deliberate and do our due diligence on Bill C-24.

9:45 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

I'll just add one point, and that is if the taxpayer has gone to the Tax Court then certainly we have collection restrictions in place so that the taxpayer will not be required to pay the amount while the amount is under appeal.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

We will come back, unless the chair would like to give me extended time.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

You can come back later, Mr. Julian.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

I'll come back to that issue, because there are also extraordinary powers given to the minister.

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Don't stray too much into examining the normal procedure of the Revenue Agency. We can't go there for an extended period of time.

From the LIberals we now have Mr. LeBlanc. Mr. Maloney, sorry.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

I'll start off if there's time after, Mr. Chairman.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Welland, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the last meeting I was concerned about section 75 of the act dealing with officers of corporations. I see that we have Ms. Negus here, who is manager of the Legislative Policy Directorate. My concern is due process for an officer or a director of a corporation so that they'd be able to respond. I'm a little confused by the last part of that section where it says “whether or not the person has been prosecuted or convicted”.

Could someone explain section 75 to me, as well as how an officer or director could respond to an accusation made?

9:45 a.m.

Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency

Cindy Negus

Could you say that last part again?