Evidence of meeting #33 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
It can be done in different ways--for example, a government amendment that covers all the time changes necessary.
Mr. André, carry on.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
If the bill is passed soon, let us say November 15 at the earliest, and is studied in the Senate for two or three weeks, it might become law before the end of the year, which might raise some problems. There might be a problem related to what I said earlier.
10:20 a.m.
Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I will defer to my colleagues, but I think there would have been a problem if the export charge had been applied on October 1. But as we discussed this morning, the export charge was only applied on October 12, so in effect there is not a—
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
10:20 a.m.
Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
We are not talking about the export charge now. Are we back to the refund question?
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
The export charge, right.
As concerns export charges, when will companies have to start paying?
10:20 a.m.
Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes, companies have started to pay the export charge as of October 12. Therefore it is not the October 1 timeframe that this draft legislation envisages. So in one respect, the actual application has been based on the coming into force of the agreement. Because this is a bonus for the exporter, that is the rationale behind it.
So I don't think we can speak any more about possible amendments. I do not think it is my provenance to speak about that—
10:20 a.m.
Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
It is a legitimate question on giving dates and when things are coming into force.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Monsieur André, it's up to the committee members to present amendments, of course, and that includes government members and the opposition as well.
Carry on.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, Madam, good morning.
The official date of the export is important for the payment of the charge and the control of export quotas. Paragraph 5.(1) reads as follows:
5.(1) For the purposes of this act, the time at which an export of softwood lumber product is considered to be exported is the time at which the product was last loaded aboard a conveyance for export.
Normally, if it is put in a truck, the truck leaves and that's it. However, if the softwood lumber product is exported by rail, it is considered to be exported when the railcar in which it has been loaded is assembled to the train that will transport it.
This is problematic for quotas management. Let us suppose that we will export today by rail a quantity equivalent to the monthly quota. The export is made from the time when the railcar is assembled to the train, but if the car stays in the yard several days and is only assembled to the train the following month, the export date will be the date when the car is assembled to the train when in fact the wood will have been exported the previous month. The official date of the export raises an important issue.
Could we treat exports by rail the same as exports by truck in taking into account the date when the product is loaded in the railcar? If it stays in the yard without being assembled to the train, what can you do? The export date should be when the railcar is in the yard ready to leave, even if it stays there.
10:20 a.m.
Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you very much for that question. It's clearly a very important question as it relates to the timing of the charge.
I'll ask my colleague Mr. Seebach to reply.
10:20 a.m.
Director, Administration and Technology Services, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you, Paul.
The concept of the railcar was to recognize a standard industry practice and an industry recommendation that cars are assembled at their plants or at certain places and are then moved to another location to be assembled into a total train to be shipped to the United States. The concept was to allow the companies that timeframe, and when the train is assembled, that will be the date of export. That's as opposed to a truck shipment. The industry has advised that when a truck is loaded and shipped, it is generally shipped at that point in time. It's to equalize those concepts of when the trains leave.
Companies have informed us that they have a fairly good knowledge of when trains are assembled by their carriers and when those dates are when they're leaving the province. That is the concept behind those two sections in the bill.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
You can see the consequences it might have for an exporter. He wants to send his product to his client, but he has no control over the time when his railcar will be assembled to the train. It might result in costs over which he has no control.
Some adjustment should be made so that the exporter might declare as his export date the day when the product is loaded in the railcar. It should be possible to find a way to reflect the real date of the export.
10:25 a.m.
Director, Administration and Technology Services, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Thank you.
This was a negotiated part of the agreement, as these two terms were agreed to by Canada and the United States as ways of measuring the date of shipment. The option for some of this flexibility to the exporters taking it into option B provinces is that those exporters, when they have a quota allocation, will have a flexibility of about 12% of their export allocation, carried forward and carried back. If a train were delayed, they would be able to qualify to have a credit for that allocation bringing forward.
Under option A provinces, there is the surge provision that allows a 10% overage before surcharges hit. This would allow that kind of flexibility for the province itself under option A.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Monsieur Cardin, your time is up.
Is there anyone else who has questions? Mr. Julian.
October 26th, 2006 / 10:25 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
You seemed to be looking to your right. I wanted to make sure I had your attention.
I'd like to thank Ms. Negus for referring to those four pieces of legislation that have the same kinds of draconian clauses that we're discussing today in Bill C-24. I would appreciate it if you could send to the committee those exact references for each of those clauses, because in each of those four pieces of legislation that you cite, there's a system of checks and balances.
I think what we're struggling with today is the fact that there do not seem to be the same checks and balances within Bill C-24 that may exist in other legislation. It would be helpful to have those pieces of legislation, in order to see how we can make this legislation much more balanced.
10:25 a.m.
Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency
Are you looking for the specific references?
10:25 a.m.
NDP
10:25 a.m.
Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency
The whole act is quite long, as you can see.