International Trade Committee on Nov. 7th, 2006

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

The chair said...[Inaudible--Editor]...so it is absolutely—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

The time is up. We'll go to a recorded division on clause 24.

(Clause 24 agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(On clause 25--Certification of independent remanufacturers)

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We are now on clause 25, with amendment NDP-18.

Mr. Julian, you have a minute if you would like to move that motion and debate it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the sixty seconds we're giving in close attention to clause-by-clause consideration, never before seen in parliamentary history: the most heavy-handed, mean-spirited, draconian attempt to force a bill through that has enormous repercussions and consequences for Canadians.

I move that in clause 25 we add new wording:

The Minister shall, when so requested by a provincial or territorial government, provide that government with all relevant information in the Minister's possession that the Minister may lawfully provide in relation to any person who has applied to that government for certification as an independent remanufacturer.

We killed independent remanufacturers early on in this bill, Mr. Chair. We've seen how irresponsible the government is when we're dealing with independent remanufacturers. They specifically requested that the traditional interpretation of tenure be held. We didn't do that. We've thrown that out the window, Mr. Chair. Essentially what we have done is opened them up, not only the B.C. timber sales, but we have opened them up to litigation--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

I just want to note for the committee that should NDP-18 carry, there are line conflicts with NDP-19 and L-5. Of course, if NDP-18 doesn't carry, there is no conflict whatsoever.

We'll go to the recorded division on NDP-18.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

NDP-18 has been defeated.

Mr. Julian, would you like to move NDP-19, or would you like to pass that one over?

Go ahead. You have one minute to move it and debate it if you would like.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I so move it, Mr. Chair, despite the kangaroo court character of this egregious, appalling, irresponsible committee hearing, ramming through each of these sections. I still hold out some hope that some members might actually realize that we're here to improve the legislation, which is very badly drafted. As a result of that, we have to take these responsibilities in hand.

I've moved amendment NDP-19, but let me speak to what people out in the community are saying.

This is what we have from the first vice-president of the USW:

The softwood deal will lead to more lay-offs, as it makes it more profitable for companies to export logs. The forests of British Columbia belong to the people of this province and should be used to provide good-paying jobs for British Columbians. This deal does not do it and should be stopped. Thanks for listening and keep up the good fight.

We're getting e-mails like that, Mr. Chair--

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Would anyone else like to speak to amendment NDP-19?

We'll go to the recorded division on amendment NDP-19.

(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Julian, if you take just a little longer to vote, I could have a meaningful nap while I'm waiting. But this way, I barely get into a full sleep and then you decide to vote. Please speed that up.

On clause 25, we have amendment L-5, on page 38 of the amendment booklet.

Mr. LeBlanc.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, colleagues.

Amendment L-5 is consistent with the one we made earlier with respect to independent remanufacturers. In subclause 25(2), the minister's authority is limited to matters as required for purposes of the act, and this is consistent with earlier clauses in the act as well.

Subclause 25(3) ensures that basic notice will be provided to companies. This is consistent with earlier sections of the act as well.

Subclause 25(4) is new. We believe it improves the bill by making the certification process consistent with the principles of open and transparent administration. We believe that, basically, people have a right to know which companies have been certified as independent remanufacturers, similar to the list that's in the legislation. There's an annex of other companies. So we see it as a straightforward administrative amendment that simply improves the legislation by making it clear which companies have in fact been certified as independent remanufacturers.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you very much, Monsieur LeBlanc.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I'd like to offer the following subamendment, Mr. Chair, for subclause 25(3):

If the Minister cancels the certification of a person, the Minister shall notify the person in writing, by registered mail, of the cancellation and of its effective date.

I'll now speak to that subamendment, once you've determined that it's in order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

You've heard the subamendment. Let's go to debate on the subamendment.

Mr. Julian, you have one minute.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chair, despite the ramrodding through of this legislation, each clause in Bill C-24 has an impact on softwood companies, on mom-and-pop operations right across the country. We're not making it easy for them to make any sort of viable business. We know that the softwood sellout itself is not commercially viable. There is a whole host of clauses that are retroactive to these companies, and as every single witness who appeared before this summer who actually is involved in the industry said, it is not commercially viable when things are retroactive. We have to make things simpler and easier for the softwood companies, and one of the ways to do that is to ensure that they get effective and adequate notice from the minister. That can only happen by registered mail. Notify a person in writing, how? Drop a letter in the mail and assume that it gets to somebody? With registered mail, we know that the party involved has received the notice from the minister. And we have to make it easier for the softwood companies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Would anybody else like to speak to Mr. Julian's subamendment?

Ms. Guergis.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Oh, no. Sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We'll go to the recorded division on the NDP subamendment to L-5.

(Subamendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We now go to L-5, unamended.

Are there any more speakers to L-5?

Mr. Julian, for one minute.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I have one minute, Mr. Chair, one minute to debate each of these amendments, each of these clauses that are contained within the agreement. It's absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible. What we've done so far today is handicapped severely the lumber remanufacturers, put in place a double taxation now on companies who choose the EDC, and taken away the historical Canadian stand on how we approach the issue of related and unrelated people in arm's-length business, something that Canada has always defended between the WTO and NAFTA.

Here we have an opportunity to provide a small degree of administrative convenience in the midst of all these punitive measures that we're going through, and the committee has rejected it, which means that this motion as a whole is something that is not administratively easy or in keeping with the interests of softwood companies across the country, which is where we have to keep our focus.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Julian, your time is up. Thank you.

Is there anybody else to speak to Liberal 5?

Yes, Ms. Guergis.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Taking a look at subclauses 25(2) and (3), I don't have any problem with those. I'm happy to accept them.

I have a little concern about subclause 25(4) when we're talking about a registry because it has been raised with me that there is a possibility that it could break some confidentiality laws. Maybe I could ask the advice of the officials here. Could they give us a quick comment on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Yes, thank you.

Who would like to comment?

Ms. McMahon.

[Mary McMahon]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This bill contains confidentiality provisions that are consistent with those contained in other tax statutes. The reason they are there is because taxpayers and individuals are required by law to provide the government with information in order for us to be able to establish their liability for tax. It's very important that this information, which can be personally or commercially sensitive, be protected.

So the bill sets out a number of circumstances in which taxpayer information of the type at issue here could be provided to particular individuals for purposes of administering the act, but that is something different from establishing a public registry, which would make it widely available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to speak to this amendment?

Then we'll go directly to the recorded division on L-5.

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I abstain.