Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:13 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Mr. Julian, if you don't vote within the ten seconds, you will be deemed to have abstained.
4:13 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, that's why I'm asking the clerk to let me know that.
Oui.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)
4:13 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We're at amendment NDP-27.
Do you want to move that one, Mr. Julian?
4:13 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Yes, I will, Mr. Chair. I'll be moving amendment NDP-27, for a reason similar to what I mentioned earlier.
What we have is reporting periods. We have small amounts of money. The government has a sledgehammer to go after....
There are huge punitive aspects of this bill—18 months in prison—and we are giving scant examination to this, 60 seconds a clause. This is unprecedented in Canadian parliamentary history, unprecedented. What kind of precedent does it set for a majority government? That remains to be seen.
Here, we would allow the minister the option whether to cancel the company's interest and penalty, but would set the actual bar at $250 rather than the $25 that is currently in the bill, to allow some—
4:13 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you.
Is there anybody else on amendment NDP-27?
Call the roll.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1)
4:13 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to take 60 seconds to talk about clause 34.
This committee has refused any modifications to actually make it easier on softwood companies. That's no surprise. I've seen 4,000 lost jobs in the last few weeks, and this type of off-the-cuff, back-of-the-napkin drafting of legislation is going to mean that more companies will go out of business and more people are going to be unemployed.
Here we had some very reasonable statements—interest should be compounded annually rather than daily, and we'd be looking at a $250 payment for a bar to actually trigger the draconian reporting mechanisms the minister has—and the committee is rejecting any softening to actually ensure softwood companies can do their job.
What we're seeing is an ugly trend, Mr. Chair. We're seeing draconian legislation that is being adopted holus-bolus, with 60 seconds of consideration per clause. This has not been seen in parliamentary history.
4:13 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anyone else to speak on clause 34?
We'll go to the vote on clause 34.
(Clause 34 agreed to: yeas 8, nays 2)
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We will now go to clause 40 and amendment NDP-27.1.
Mr. Julian, would you like to move that?
(On clause 40)
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Is anyone looking for it? That one's in a separate package. It isn't in the—
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I will give a moment, Mr. Chair, for people to find the clause.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, I think it's important that they actually read these amendments, which they're taking 60 seconds to consider and vote on—this type of back-of-a-napkin legislation that is going to make a huge difference for softwood companies. We've already seen what this committee has done to lumber remanufacturers.
What we have in clause 40, Mr. Chair, are very tight timelines and what we wanted on the company side. But in terms of how the minister acts, we don't have tight components at all. What we have is fairly loose language, as far as the minister is concerned.
We already know when we talk about reverse onus, what we have is as Vern Krishna said in The Lawyers Weekly a couple of weeks ago. The taxpayer must either prepay his taxes—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Would anyone else like to speak to NDP-27.1?
Yes, Mr. Cannan.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Could our representatives here clarify if this is the standard language that's used in other acts?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you.
So let's go to the vote on NDP-27.1.
(Amendment negatived: nays 9; yeas 1) [See Minutes of Proceedings]
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We now go to NDP-28, on page 49 of the amendment booklet.
Mr. Julian.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I move NDP-28, and I would like our panel of guests to talk about the impact of this particular amendment, if they could please explain it to the committee.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Ladies and gentlemen, could you comment on whether there is a problem with the royal recommendation and spending provisions here?
4:20 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Legal Services Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Subclause 51.5 of the proposed legislation would require that a taxpayer be paid interest at the specified rate—i.e., plus 4%—from the 30th day after a refund application is filed with the minister. The proposed amendment would not provide for the higher rate of interest to be paid. The provision is currently worded to ensure that a taxpayer is not prejudiced by any unexpected delay in processing a refund under the proposed legislation.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Are you saying, Ms. McMahon, that under this amendment, amendment NDP-28, on page 49, there could be an increase in the amount of money required to be spent by the government, to be paid out by the government?
4:20 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Legal Services Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
No, I believe it would be less money paid out, because it would be at a lower rate rather than the specified rate at which interest would be paid.