Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Right. So we will allow the amendment.
Mr. Julian, your time is up.
Is there anyone else on that?
Then we'll go to the vote on amendment NDP-28.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1) [See Minutes of Proceedings]
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
We'll now go to clause 40. Shall clause 40 carry?
Mr. Julian, on clause 40.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you for the 60 seconds that I'm allotted on this.
It shows how absurd this process is. We ask a question to our guests, and we're not allowed to speak, because it's deducted from our time. What absurdity. What an irresponsible way of adjusting and dealing with important legislation. We ask a question, and we're not able to deal with the consequences or the feedback on that question. This is not the way legislation is supposed to be drafted. This is an absolute absurdity. It's abominable that we have around this committee the intention to ram these clauses through without dealing effectively with each of them.
For example, when we look at clause 40, there are various clauses here that actually have substantive impact on the companies that are dealing with the government on this. These are companies that did not choose this agreement--
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anyone else on clause 40?
We'll go to the vote on clause 40. This is on the unamended clause. I can understand how you could lose focus.
(Clause 40 agreed to: yeas 9; nays 2)
(On clause 41--Refund of payment)
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
On clause 41, we have amendment NDP-29, on page 50 of the amendment booklet.
Mr. Julian, you have one minute.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Why, thank you, Mr. Chair. You're very generous, 60 seconds.
This is a completely inappropriate way of dealing with legislation.
I will move amendment NDP-29 that is within clause 41.
Essentially, what it does is expand the period of prescribed information from two years to five years. What that does is provide a greater period of time for companies to go after what should be a refund in this respect. That is why we offer this amendment. The two-year time period is certainly too short.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anybody else on NDP-29?
We'll go to the vote on NDP-29.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1) [See Minutes of Proceedings]
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It took 60 seconds' duration to pass clause 40—60 seconds. It's incredible. We've just looked at some of the components of what that means for softwood companies, and we are giving all of a scant 60 seconds to consider the impact, both of the amendment that would have made it easier for companies to come after the government for refunds—this is for moneys that the government owes to these companies. Instead of applying a longer period that would make it easier on softwood companies, we're simply, in 60 seconds, ramming through this clause.
It is an extremely sad day for Parliament, Mr. Chair, when we ram through legislation that has a negative impact on softwood companies. None of them asked for this type of short refund period. None of them asked for the types of penalties and the thuggish authoritarian approach, with an 18-month prison sentence if you don't obey this particular bill. What they would ask for is some respect; that they have a certain logical period of time in which to claim refunds, because they would not be—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anyone else on clause 41?
Let's vote on clause 41.
(Clause 41 agreed to: yeas 8; nays 2)
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Now we go down to clause 48, and amendment NDP-30, on page 51 of the package.
Mr. Julian.
(On clause 48--Keeping records)
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, as we're going through at a lightning pace, I'm going to just reference the lines....
Essentially what this amendment would do, Mr. Chair, again trying to provide some support to the softwood companies instead of ramming through a bill that has a very negative impact on them, is say, “unless otherwise requested by the person and authorized by the minister”, instead of the minister deciding unilaterally that records shall be kept in Canada in English or French.
We support the general thrust of that particular clause, that records shall be kept in Canada. This is an important component. As we've seen with the U.S. Patriot Act, records that go to the United States are records that are often subject to the Patriot Act. Some records kept in Canada are as well, Mr. Chair, but of course, because we're moving at a breakneck pace, we're not going to consider that.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anyone else on NDP-30?
We'll go to the vote.
(Amendment negatived: nays 9; yeas 2) [See Minutes of Proceedings]
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Should we just group NDP-31, NDP-32, NDP-33? Is there unanimous support to do that?
4:30 p.m.
An hon. member
Sure.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I don't think 60 seconds for our softwood industry is asking too much. Obviously the government would disagree with me on that, but that will be something that softwood communities will be able to judge in the next few months.
Currently within Bill C-24, among the many onerous provisions that we are railroading through, ramrodding through without scant consideration, we are asking companies to keep records for six years. For these companies that already have the administrative burdens, already have the punitive taxes, the double taxation that has been adopted in clause 18, despite warnings, very clear warnings to the committee, the punitive taxes that they're paying at the border, and the fact that a whole host of amendments that would have improved this legislation have been refused, we have here a situation where we're requiring these companies to keep six years of records. This amendment I've moved, amendment NDP-31, would ask that the records be retained for half that period.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anyone else on amendment NDP-31?
We'll go to the vote.
(Amendment negatived: nays 10; yeas 1) [See Minutes of Proceedings]
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
On amendment NDP-32, Mr. Julian.
We could deem it to be defeated, if you'd like.
November 7th, 2006 / 4:30 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm still hoping that there will be common sense around this table and that members of the committee will realize that what is happening here is irresponsible. That's what I'm hoping. One might consider me an idealist, but I honestly believe parliamentarians believe in their hearts that they have a responsibility to softwood companies and softwood communities across the country that are going to pay the price for what is happening today.
Currently, under Bill C-24, records are required to be retained for any period specified in the demand. So what we have is that the minister can basically force any period upon the softwood companies. We talked about six years, and that's already onerous, but beyond that now, the minister may demand that records be retained for any period. What this amendment does is provide for a reasonable period. Now, according the government, “reasonable” is, I guess, 60 seconds--or even better, 10 seconds.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Mr. Julian.
Is there anyone else on amendment NDP-32? We want to allow ample time for debate.
Is there no one else? Then we'll go to the vote.
(Amendment negatived: nays 9; yeas 1) [See Minutes of Proceedings]
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, is that the vote bell? It certainly seems to me to be the vote bell. I would move that we suspend, given that we have the vote being called.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative