Evidence of meeting #36 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Dennis Seebach  Director, Administration and Technology Services, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Marc Toupin  Procedural Clerk
Mary McMahon  Senior Counsel, Legal Services Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Michael Solursh  Counsel, Trade Law Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Cindy Negus  Manager, Legislative Policy Directorate, Canada Revenue Agency
Paul Robertson  Director General, North America Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think it's a good time now to reassess how we're doing here. I've been on this Hill for six years and I have never attended a committee that was so non-productive. We are only 15% done. We only have probably 17 clauses done and there have been 17 challenges of the chair. In order to move this along at a speed where we can all have some debate, my motion would be that we reduce the time limit to debate for each amendment or subamendment to one minute per member, unless there's unanimous consent to extend it.

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

You've heard the motion. Shall we go directly to a vote?

Mr. Julian.

2:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Chair, this is absolutely unbelievable.

The three-minute rule was already unprecedented. This is something that has never happened in parliamentary history. This is a serious bill with serious flaws. It is absolutely unbecoming of any member to even think that within sixty seconds we can deal with the complexity of legislation. Even within three minutes it's been difficult for members to understand what the implications and consequences of their decisions are.

Mr. Chair, as you know, you do have the ability to adjourn a meeting, if the meeting simply is not...and if any one member decides that the rules of order that have been imposed are unreasonable. I would suggest that Mr. Eyking would prefer to withdraw his motion rather than put us in a situation where what is already untenable becomes absolutely irresponsible. This has never happened before in the history of House committees. Never before has a bill this complex been rammed through with so many implications. I mean, the screw-ups around voting through amendments that have profound implications for the independent remanufacturers, as we've seen, are consequences that will continue with us for many years to come. This is absolutely irresponsible and it should not be considered by the committee. If it's considered by the committee, then what we are saying is that we are not going to respect the proper parliamentary procedure and we're going to try to ram this through in one day. This is not in Canadians' interests, and most Canadians would disagree profoundly with this. We're dealing with the complexity of the bill.

I would ask Mr. Eyking to withdraw his motion because it is absolutely the most irresponsible thing that I have heard in my two and a half years on the Hill. It is unbecoming any parliamentarian to try to muzzle members of Parliament. We already have a muzzling that's without precedent. Why doesn't he make it five seconds? Why doesn't he just go the whole route? I mean, why not? If we're not going to seriously consider the bill anyhow, Mr. Chair, why not make it two and a half seconds? Why don't we just assume that we have no due diligence or responsibility at all?

As I mentioned, a member of the lumber industry asked me last night why the Liberals are assisting in this. He said, I thought they were opposed to the softwood sellout. Very clearly, with what we're seeing today, this is not the case; there is as much support from the Liberals as there is from the Conservatives. People in British Columbia, who are strongly opposed to this sellout, will be able to take the proper conclusions based on that.

I would ask the member to withdraw his motion.

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian, your time is up.

Is there any other debate on the motion?

(Motion agreed to: yeas 8; nays 2)

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian, could I just ask you to cast your vote a little more quickly? It is taking a long time, and you've expressed concern about not having enough time. Certainly, you would increase the amount of time you have by speeding up your vote.

Let's go ahead with NDP-15, which is on page 33 of the amendment booklet.

Go ahead, Mr. Julian, for one minute.

(On clause 19--Minister's duty)

2:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

This is a kangaroo court, Mr. Chair. It is absolutely absurd what has happened here today. We'll be making sure we get out right across this country; we'll be making sure independent lumber remanufacturers in the Okanagan and northern B.C. know what has transpired here today, making sure that all aspects of the deal being rammed through today are known to the public at large.

We have amendment 15 that asks for cooperation with the provincial and territorial governments; that is the amendment I move.

But this is absolutely ridiculous. This is the most deplorable episode I think in parliamentary history that I'm aware of; this softwood lumber sellout and egregiously poorly written bill is being rammed through with no debate.

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Julian, your time is up.

2:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Chair, I challenge that. I don't believe it was a minute.

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

We now go to—

2:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Chair, on a point of order.

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

—a recorded vote.

2:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian.

2:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

I challenge your decision. I don't believe it was a minute, so I would like to challenge your decision on that.

2:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

2:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

And it'll happen every single time, Mr. Chair.

I challenge the chair.

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian, there's nothing to challenge. I have a clock in front of me. I have given you the time, so it's not a decision to be challenged.

We will go to the recorded vote.

2:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Chair, a point of order. A point of order, Mr. Chair. It was not one minute, and I challenge your decision on that basis, Mr. Chair.

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

We're voting on NDP-15.

2:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

A point of order. A point of order.

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian, order, please. We are voting. The clerk must hear the votes being cast.

Please continue with the recorded vote.

2:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

I have asked for a point of order.

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

And I've asked for order, Mr. Julian, please.

2:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

And I have asked for a point of order.

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Mr. Julian, please show some respect for the chair and the committee. I would like order before this committee, Mr. Julian.