International Trade Committee on May 8th, 2007

[An hon. member]

It's better than the Green Party.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Well, you're right, it is better than the Green Party. That's a good point.

Anyway, Mr. Chair, my point is that factually this motion is incorrect. We have had witnesses who have said it's incorrect; we've had statements by government, we've even had former Liberal prime ministers who have said this is incorrect. My concern is the lack of credibility this committee will have, going forward, by introducing such a reckless, such a partisan, such a totally irrelevant piece of information, as far as this motion goes. So I want to express my concern again.

This is a question of credibility that I will put forward to the Liberals. We can disagree on policy and we can disagree on other things, but this is a factually incorrect motion and it should be struck. We should not even be having this conversation right now.

I will remind my Liberal friends that their prime ministers or ministers of foreign affairs have all been on the record saying that is not true, so I want to know why all of a sudden now they're switching their position on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Allison.

We'll continue with the speaking list. Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

The Conservatives are completely wrong on everything they've said.

I call the vote, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Next on the list is Monsieur André.

Mr. Julian, you've requested that there be a vote. The chair has determined that it's not appropriate at this time. We have a speaking list, and I will carry forward through the speaking list.

Point of order, Mr. Julian?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

You have to then consult the committee to decide whether they want further debate on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Julian, I, as chair, determined that we will go through the list.

Monsieur André, you are next on the list.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Chairman, further to Mr. Julian's proposal, I challenge you to put this motion to a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Are you challenging the ruling of the chair? Okay, so I'll just discuss with the clerk, and we will carry forward on this. We have to go directly to this now.

Monsieur André, you have challenged the decision of the chair, so I will read the question.

Shall the decision of the chair be sustained? We will go now directly to a vote on that.

[An hon. member]

It's a vote to cut off debate, is that what it is?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

No. Shall the decision of the chair be sustained--that's the motion. If this motion is carried, then we have to deal with that. If the vote is defeated then we carry on with the business before the committee.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Can I ask you a question for clarification? I don't understand how debate can be limited like that. Maybe you could clarify. If other members want to participate in the debate and want to discuss the motion, I do not understand how it is that a motion can be called to a vote and nobody can stop that. There's still a speakers list; there are still MPs who want to be heard. We had this on another committee, Mr. Chair, and you could not call the question to a vote until debate ended.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, you called the vote on the Chair's motion.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I am trying to understand this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Just for clarity, Monsieur André, what you're asking for here is going outside the rules of the committee. You're asking for the rules to be overridden in this case, by challenging the decision of the chair, which is to carry on as described in the appropriate committee process. That's what you're asking for.

We'll now go to a vote on whether the decision of the chair shall be sustained.

Those in favour of the motion brought forward by Monsieur André?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

No, no. Those in favour of sustaining the chair's decision--that's the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

That's exactly what I....

I have read the motion that is before the committee now. It is here because of a motion brought forth by Monsieur André. I've been informed by the clerk, and we've done this before at this committee, that we vote on the question: “Shall the decision of the chair be sustained?” If the decision of the chair is sustained, then we carry on. If the decision of the chair is defeated, then we go to the vote on the motion.

I need just a minute here.

It's not debatable. We will go to a vote, and what we're voting on is whether the decision of the chair shall be sustained.

(Ruling of the chair overturned)

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

The decision of the chair is overruled, so now we go to a vote on the motion as amended. No, we're not on the motion; we're on the amendment. So we'll go to a vote on the amendment.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I'm sorry, but what about the speakers list, Mr. Chair? There's a precedent set, in Marleau and Montpetit, page 456. Let my honourable colleagues dispute it if they will. It clearly says that a motion to put the question--or in official terms, the previous question--is out of order in committees, based on precedent from committees of the whole in 1969.

The speakers list stands.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Menzies, you're absolutely right, but the motion was that we ignore those rules of committee. And the committee is the master of its own destiny; it can ignore the rules.

We will go to a vote on the amendment.

(Amendment agreed to) [See Minutes of Proceedings]

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Our time for this committee meeting is up.

The meeting is adjourned.