International Trade Committee on Feb. 6th, 2008

[Robert Crow]

It's very difficult to put that into any kind of perspective. Suffice it to say that Korea is a large country with a potential market that is large. We've been fortunate to grow our employment by nearly a factor of eight over just the last six or seven years. Most of that employment has occurred in Canada. As a rapidly growing company, I look, on a global basis, at whether we have room to grow. If we have room to grow and we have the ability to address those markets, more Canadians will be employed.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

You mentioned that Korea has a big market that is very literate and business oriented and could use this device. I'm talking in a general perspective, looking at Korea compared to another country about the same size. Do you think more jobs could be created going into Korea than going into another country with the same population?

[Robert Crow]

Again, no two countries are quite the same, even if they're at the same levels of size and sophistication. We will certainly go into any country and adapt our product. Our product has already been adapted to the Korean character set. It's literally ready to go, from the standpoint of being useful to Koreans in their language. We've done this in other countries. It's part of our international strategy and I think a very important aspect of the work we do.

We believe we have an excellent product. We're prepared to go into that country and any other and compete with the best the world has to offer. We like the success we have had so far, and we like the growth we've enjoyed so far. We want to continue that for the benefit of all our employees and stakeholders.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Vice-President Crow.

Mr. Chair, could I ask a few questions of Ms. George?

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Fine.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. George, you mentioned that free trade will create a lot more jobs and that we'll also lose jobs. Do you have an estimate of how many highly paid jobs in Canada will be eliminated by creating very low-paid jobs if this agreement is signed?

[Shirley-Ann George]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understood. How many highly paid versus low-paid jobs?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Jobs, yes.

[Shirley-Ann George]

I apologize, I don't have the numbers you're looking for. You've already seen the analysis that's been done from DFAIT and from others. I think part of the challenge is the negative impacts tend to bring out people who are very concerned, and the negative impacts are often overdone by some groups, whereas the positive impacts are much, much more difficult to get real, hard numbers on.

As was mentioned before, it's much harder to figure out how many jobs will be created, as opposed to a worst-case scenario of how many might go away. I apologize, I don't have that information.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thanks, Ms. George. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

I think we have time for one more.

Mr. Allison.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I realize it's difficult. I think most of the questions have been asked. I thought I would take time to reiterate, Mr. Crow, that we certainly appreciate the leadership role you guys are playing all over the world. Certainly I appreciate what your stock has done over the last little while. I thought I should mention that as well.

Ms. George, in terms of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, you certainly represent a huge cross-section of businesses. I know we've talked about the potential concerns of the manufacturing and automotive sectors. Can you talk to us at all about areas of opportunity that you think may be able to benefit?

We talked about how those who are obviously concerned are always going to be out there talking about those things. What are some areas that you think we can do well at? I think my colleague was wondering whether we're trading low-paying jobs for high-paying, which may not necessarily be the case. But where do you think the potential is for us?

[Shirley-Ann George]

I think the first place to look is in the commodities that are truly export oriented, especially agriculture from western Canada. When you look at things like wheat, for example, and other products like that that are grown in western Canada, I think there's some real opportunity.

There's also opportunity for our forestry industry, which is being hit hard right now and could do with some new market opportunities. As I mentioned before, there are some opportunities for some very high-end products that Canada does so well in, such as insurance, such as products or services that are offered by Research in Motion.

Those are just some examples of where real opportunities exist. It's not to be said that you sign the paper and the next day there are x number of billions of dollars flowing, but Canadians are more than capable of competing on the world market if they have a fair and level playing field and if we get some good agreements for them.

One of the things we haven't spent a lot of time on is what we are going to do for those companies and industries that are negatively impacted, how can we put our heads together to try to manage any kind of transition, the length of time before certain tariffs are reduced, those kinds of things. That's part of the negotiations, and it's something we really need to think about.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Mr. Crow, I know you've indicated that you guys have been consulted, maybe not specifically on Korea, but I realize consuls around the world are working with you and there are markets you're trying to break into. Do you have any thoughts for us, Mr. Crow--and I'm going to open this to Ms. George as well--in terms of your sense...? We talk about what we don't know in terms of the agreement. I'm saying we haven't all seen it; it started in 2006 and has been ongoing.

Is your sense, though, that Trade and DFAIT are listening to some of these concerns? I say once again that we don't know where the agreement is today. That's why we're conducting these meetings, to offer some suggestions and to make sure we don't sell ourselves short.

Do you have any thoughts in terms of the correspondence you've had with Trade and DFAIT over time?

Then, Ms. George, I'll ask the same question to you about some of your members who may have had some input as well.

Mr. Crow.

[Robert Crow]

With respect to Korea, we have had not only every opportunity to give our view but tremendous support from Ottawa and the mission on the specific issue we faced, as well as very strong leadership.

I would also say, more generally, that as we've grown around the world, I've spent an increasing portion of my time in discussions with our officials in DFAIT, both in Ottawa and out in various missions. Korea isn't the only area where we have had an issue or an opportunity. I will say that we have been extremely well served, and we are proud to take Canada around the world as a leading example of what Canada can do. We certainly get terrific service, top to bottom, at DFAIT.

That would be my contribution.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Crow.

Ms. George, in terms of your members, I'm assuming that some have been consulted. But have you any sense of how that process is going?

[Shirley-Ann George]

Absolutely. The government has reached out by trying to find companies that have concerns and companies that see opportunities. They have consulted very closely with the auto industry. Not always have the results been something the auto industry has stood up and applauded, but it is very fair to say that the auto industry has been consulted. The other industries have been consulted. They've been very proactive, and if anybody hasn't been reached, I don't think it is through any fault of the government.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

I'd like to thank both of you for being here today.

Ms. George, the work of the chamber has been invaluable to our small communities.

Mr. Crow, we really appreciate the leadership you guys have taken in putting Canada on the map, virtually all over the world.

[Robert Crow]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you, Mr. Allison.

I particularly want to thank our witnesses today.

Shirley-Ann George, vice-president, international, of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, I thought your opening statement was just excellent. Given the discussions we've had to date on our committee, your presentation, quite uniquely, kind of capped where we are on this committee in terms of what has to be done as we proceed. It will serve as a pretty good base document for Mr. Holden, our analyst, in writing the first draft. It is very helpful, and I appreciate your answers as well.

Mr. Crow, vice-president of industry and government relations from Research In Motion, we thank you for attending today. I must say that I very much appreciated, as I'm sure all the members here did, your kind and gracious remarks with regard to our officers who serve abroad, both in DFAIT and at our high commissions and embassies around the world. It's always nice to get some feedback from a satisfied customer. I'm sure your comments will be passed along through the minister to those officials.

To both of you, again, thank you very much for your appearance today.

With that, we will adjourn.