International Trade Committee on Feb. 13th, 2008

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I would suggest this is much better than what previous governments have done.

Let me move on. You have suggested that moving forward with this free trade agreement with Korea is actually ideologically driven rather than based on historical experience. Let's talk about historic experience. Canada has one. It's called NAFTA. I'm assuming that you're fundamentally opposed to NAFTA.

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

I'm fundamentally opposed to the model of trade it has established.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

There seems to be almost universal agreement, perhaps not by Mr. Julian, that in fact Canada has been a huge beneficiary of free trade under NAFTA and that the agreement has actually significantly benefited Canadians overall.

If you're opposed to NAFTA, is it correct that you would essentially be opposed to any free trade agreement, with any country?

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

I would be happy to share some of our studies that have shown the deleterious effects of NAFTA and the NAFTA model on the Canadian economy and Canadian workers and families.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

What studies are those?

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

Those are studies we have done within the Canadian Labour Congress, and I would be happy to share them with the committee.

These are studies that show that family incomes have decreased at the same time that income inequality has increased in this country and that social transfers have reduced the economic reality for the lowest sectors of the population while income has increased in the top 20% and higher.

I'm also aware that the Canadian economy has suffered, in structural terms, by not having developed a capital goods sector in the context of the free trade agreement and the fact that we are tending towards increasing resource exports and not manufacturing, which has weakened our economy significantly.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you.

That doesn't change the fact that we presently have the lowest unemployment rate in Canada in 33 years. We have the strongest economic fundamentals of the G-8 nations.

I'm encouraged by someone like Mr. Moynahan, who actually acknowledges that if a free trade agreement provides for a level playing field he believes Canadians can compete. But you're saying you're afraid of competition around the world, and you want to protect against competition. I would suggest that's not realistic in a global trade environment, a global market for our goods, especially for a nation that is clearly a trading nation such as Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Your time has expired, unfortunately.

I think we have time for a quick third round, and we'll begin with Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is directed to you, Ms. Healy.

I like the entrepreneur spirit you mentioned. I come from that spirit, and I live that spirit in Canada as well. But I want to see a government that keeps a balance between that entrepreneurship to be a trading nation like Mr. Fast mentioned..... At the same time, I'm very concerned.

You brought up the issues of the labour and human rights situations, here and in Korea. Even though Mr. Fast said we have the lowest unemployment rate--thanks to the previous Liberal government--can you tell me how many low-paying jobs this free trade will be creating and those high-paid jobs that Canada will sacrifice?

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

At the outset we believe that 33,000 high-paying manufacturing jobs will be lost. Those people who find jobs will lose 25% of their income immediately because they end up in sectors that are not as well paid and are much more precarious.

These are the things I think the committee needs to debate, rather than ideological positions. We can talk about ideology, but when we talk about the real historical experience of this economy and this country, we can see the problem is that the standards are harmonizing downward and the situation is becoming more and more precarious, not just for individuals, but for families, communities, and various regions of this country.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

In case this free trade goes ahead, do you see any programs in place to provide elderly workers who become jobless with well-paying jobs so they can come back and compete in the modern economy?

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

One of the things that is sorely lacking is government funding and support for training, and encouragement for industry to actually put their fair share into training programs in this country. We are woefully lacking on this score when we compare ourselves internationally.

One of the problems in the NAFTA era has been the decline of the social transfers for people who are trying to find their way back into the economy, and trying to find a better economic path for themselves and their children. So if the Canadian government took their policy tools seriously, we could have a much different kind of scenario.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Does Canada need an agreement to remain competitive now, or should we wait maybe another five years for the negotiations to go well and awareness on the international scene to be much better?

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

I imagine that the members of the committee are well aware, from being very closely connected with their constituents, of the incredible crisis the Canadian economy is undergoing at this moment.

I don't think the people you represent are in a position to wait five years. The crisis is at the moment, and the impact of the uneven development is current.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

So are you telling me we should do the agreement now, or wait another five years to go back into those negotiations?

[Dr. Teresa Healy]

Our critique is not a temporal one; it's on the substance of the agreement.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Khan, you said you have signed an agreement with Korea-. Congratulations; good job. Can you tell me if you are exploring any other market in South Asia?

[Steve Khan]

Yes. We're having discussions in Japan and have been approached by groups in China as well.

As you know, the rest of the world has embraced nuclear energy in a bigger way than North America. Without any other development of that industry here in North America, demand is huge and growing for uranium supplies, particularly from safe and secure supply countries like Canada. This is only now starting to become a very big issue for countries that are increasing their nuclear energy needs. We'll see this open the door now. Many other Canadian companies will be approached to look at securing future supplies of uranium.

We have a sister company that is more advanced. Its properties are predominantly in the United States, but it is a Canadian company and listed publicly. It has been approached by numerous other countries and major corporations looking to supply these sources with products. So it expands as we move forward.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

So your entrepreneurial spirit is not attached to the free trade agreement. You still can go ahead and sign agreements with other nations, even if this trade agreement doesn't go ahead.

[Steve Khan]

Yes. That's a very good point. We have the benefit of being small and nimble and having a product that is needed, so those negotiations and discussions will continue.

However, any time barriers are removed to free trade it's positive, and will lead to additional contracts being made by companies at all stages of the production cycle. Particularly because of our strong resource base, Canada is going to benefit.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

We'll move to Mr. Allison.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to go back to Mr. Khan. I apologize if this is repetitive, but could you give us details on the nature of your business and exactly what you do?

[Steve Khan]

Fission Energy is a mining exploration company focused on the uranium sector. Our projects are based predominantly in northern Saskatchewan and northern Quebec.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you very much.

In your opening statement you said the Koreans are helping fund your venture, which I think is pretty unique. Is that correct? Is it a joint venture? Are they lending you money for capital? What exactly is this arrangement, if you can share that?