Evidence of meeting #30 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombian.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John D. Wright  President and Chief Executive Officer, Petrobank Energy and Resources Ltd.
Jean-Michel Laurin  Vice-President, Global Business Policy, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Pascal Paradis  Director General, Lawyers Without Borders
Mark Rowlinson  Labour Lawyer, Canadian Association of Labour Lawyers
Denis L'Anglais  Member of the Board of Directors, Colombia Group, Lawyers Without Borders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witnesses. I appreciate your perspective.

I just want to clarify whether all three of you have been to Colombia.

We had an excellent trip. It was definitely eye-opening for me. We had an excellent cross-section of witnesses. We heard from both independents and government and from NGOs who were very frank and honest. From some of the information we received, it's definitely a country still in a transition state. They're in the middle of a war. I don't know if you heard the witnesses who came here before you, approximately an hour prior. Their comment was that they're getting it right, but it's taking time.

We had an excellent meeting with President Álvaro Uribe Vélez. He's served six out of his eight years. He's running with an 80%-plus approval rating. I think any politician in this room who could run that percentage of popularity would think they were doing something right.

I think my colleagues have generally the same perspective as far as the fact that 70% of Colombians are now receiving health care, which is up from 30%. All types of crime are trending down, including a significant reduction in kidnapping and murder. They have a family-in-action program where they're providing education and vaccinations for children and ensuring they are properly fed. It's a huge step forward. Is there room for improvement? Definitely. What we saw was a snapshot in time of where they're going.

I was speaking with the ambassador, and at his home we had a good cross-section of people who have been in business. I represent an area in the interior of British Columbia, and there was a gentleman who was in forestry for over 27 years in B.C. Five years ago he decided to move to Colombia. He said it was the best move he's made. He recommends it for any forester--obviously we have a downturn in our economy here--to take some of their skills, work ethic, and environmental practices and implement them in their work field.

I look at what we saw and where we're going, and I guess the question I have is this. Mr. Paradis, you can start off with this. We talked about human rights violations. One statistic we've heard over and over--and I asked several people--is that 95% of the human rights violations are caused by paramilitary and guerrilla groups such as FARC. There have been hundreds of thousands of people who have been displaced. We went to Soacha, which, as you said, is at the edge of town, approximately 45 minutes' to an hour's drive, and we saw these displaced people. It was a result of groups like FARC. I don't know if that's a concern of your organization. It sure is a concern of mine.

You also mentioned the human rights violations by the state. Yet, we were told that 95% of the violations are by these other organizations. Do you have any examples of human rights violations by the state?

5:30 p.m.

Director General, Lawyers Without Borders

Pascal Paradis

I'm sorry, could you--

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Human rights violations by the state.

5:30 p.m.

Director General, Lawyers Without Borders

Pascal Paradis

I just named a few that have been recognized by the Inter-American Court--participation by state forces, police, and military in massacres and extrajudicial killings. These cases are available in the rosters of the Inter-American Court or the Colombian government. I'm not talking about any other cases. There are hundreds of cases. I'm just talking about the grossest violations like killings and massacres.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

So in what year was the state charged for human rights violations?

5:30 p.m.

Director General, Lawyers Without Borders

Pascal Paradis

Well, the last court cases were in 2007 and were based on facts dating back to the nineties. But of course court cases take a long time.

What I'm saying is that for the facts happening now, you will read the court cases in 10 or 15 years. But there are still complaints and cases against the state before international authorities, the Inter-American Court system, and the Colombian courts for the same kinds of things.

Once again, Lawyers without Borders is generally not involved in collecting statistics, and so on, but we do work with partners such as the Colombian Commission of Jurists, which partners with the European Union and Canada. Canada actually finances the Colombian Commission of Jurists, which is the local branch of the International Commission of Jurists. It's an outstanding organization, beyond any doubt or ideological link to whatever side. They say that during the first mandate of President Álvaro Uribe, there were 3,000 assassinations, with the paramilitary responsible for 60% of those killings, the state directly responsible for 15%, and the guerillas for the rest. So what they are basically saying is that 70% to 75% of the grossest violations of human rights are committed through the omission or the participation of the state, because they say the paramilitary is linked to the state and the state has not put an end to these links, and therefore it has some kind of responsibility.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

I commend your efforts.

Is Lawyers Without Borders funded through legal organizations, or how are you funded?

5:30 p.m.

Director General, Lawyers Without Borders

Pascal Paradis

Our organization is funded through our own fundraising and through grants from CIDA, for instance, or other organizations—but mainly through our own fundraising.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

I know that Connie Watson, the CBC reporter, was with us and gave an excellent report when we went up to Soacha and talked with the United Nations, where we had the learning circle on CIDA investing in the schools and helping children transition.

I thank my colleague Mr. Julian for bringing those wonderful Canadian pins that we were able to distribute.

The question was asked of those displaced people, do you not think a free trade agreement would be beneficial to you, giving you an opportunity for increased education and enhanced opportunities for employment? They said absolutely. So when you hear from people who are displaced and looking for opportunities, they think it's a good initiative to continue to give them an opportunity

Wouldn't you think that would be prudent of the government to do?

5:30 p.m.

Director General, Lawyers Without Borders

Pascal Paradis

Well, everybody has hope that his or her situation will improve. I understand them for having hope, and we all hope it will produce results.

Once again, we don't have any specific theoretical or philosophical case for or against free trade, but what we are saying is that it would commend Canada, when considering a free trade agreement with Colombia, to look at the situation of human rights and to do something about it before signing a deal. Assess the situation and set some preliminary conditions for the sake of all of Colombia—its citizens and displaced people.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

I agree that we need to work together and give them hope.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

Thanks, Ron.

5:35 p.m.

A voice

Could I address Mr. Cannan's question?

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson

We're out of time, I'm sorry.

That is it for the day. Thank you very much for your appearance.

The meeting is adjourned.