International Trade Committee on Dec. 1st, 2009

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

He was the vice-president of the association.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

The vice-president of the association was killed by the Columbian army that is tied with the regime.

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

There was no judgment on the case but several factors indicate that he was the victim of an extrajudicial execution. However the Columbian army claimed that he was a guerrilla member who died during fighting. He disappeared right after a meeting of FEDEAGROMISBOL where there was a discussion about the association's position on foreign investment. On pages 32 and 33 of our report, you will find the details of the attacks against FEDEAGROMISBOL members. The president of FEDEAGROMISBOL, Teofilo Acuña, who was interviewed over the course of our study, had to leave the region because he feared for his safety. He himself was illegally arrested by the Columbian army in April 2007. These are two examples amongst a multitude of attacks and threats against FEDEAGROMISBOL members and leaders.

There is one particularly worrying aspect to these attacks. In Águilas Negras's threats, FEDEAGROMISBOL's opposition to investments or the presence of transnational companies is given as one of the reasons why its members are military targets, as expressed by Águilas Negras members. This is a particular concern for us.

Also, during interactions with Columbian army troops, comments were made by troop members to the effect that the Columbian army's work is to allow the presence of these companies. These are comments that were made by members of the Columbian army troops. That is a particular concern in that it leaves some doubt about the ability or even interest on the part of the Columbian state to protect rights and to impartially assess the rights and obligations of investors and local communities, etc.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

In your report, it clearly states: “... that soldiers have told local residents that its operations are designed to protect the interest of international mining companies in the area.” That is on page 33.

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

These are indeed comments that have been made by members of the Colombian army and that were noted by members of FEDEAGROMISBOL and by a Canadian organization called Christian Peacemaker Teams.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Do you know how many people who work for the union have been killed or threatened?

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

No. I can't give you an exact figure.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

They are part of the people of that federation who have been killed and tortured. The union was set up and people were tortured and killed by the paramilitaries linked to the regime and by the Colombian army led by the regime, is that correct?

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

Yes. In that region, the links between the Colombian army and the paramilitary groups have been clearly proven.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Can I ask one last question?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You're being very patient with us today.

You're making a very clear case for an independent and impartial human rights assessment. That is very clear. Any member listening to what you've said or reading this report could do nothing but wonder, if they are sincerely reading the report, what the impacts will be and whether we will indeed be provoking further human rights violations if we move ahead.

Why do you think there is some resistance to a human rights assessment on Colombia before moving forward any further?

[Jamie Kneen]

On the part of...? I'm not inside other people's heads. It's difficult to--

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, the government seems to be resisting it.

[Jamie Kneen]

What one can say is that there is a resource there that can be exploited, whether it's gold or uranium, and there is an interest in going forward and not in delaying the implementation of investment protection measures that would be available through a free trade agreement. That much I can say.

In terms of attributing motives to other people, it's somewhat difficult.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Do I have any more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Yes, go for one more.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Wow. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.

You have documented a whole series of violations and concerns--the killing of union representatives, torture on behalf of the military arm of the Colombian regime, the paramilitary arm of the Colombian regime. You have documented that thoroughly. You've put this report out, and hopefully people around this committee table will be reading it thoroughly.

You are saying that we need to do an independent and impartial human rights assessment. What is your fear if we simply push ahead, as some would have us do, despite the fact that there is very little commercial benefit to Canada? Certainly there is a huge downside on the human rights side. What is your fear if we push ahead with the agreement without any idea of whether or not we're provoking increased violence and human rights violations?

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

The main concern is that the risks identified in the report materialize. The greatest risk is that the potential violations identified here take place and that the investments planned or provided for make these violations possible. In my opinion, that is the risk that should be the focus of all our concerns.

Another concern is that the Canadian state should ensure that it does not rob Peter to pay Paul. It must be consistent in its relationship with Colombia.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I think we're going to have call it at that.

I have been lenient. I just didn't want to subject our witnesses to undue torture today by going two hours. I thought we may get the most out of it by allowing each of the parties 15 minutes. Each of you has now gone over 15 minutes.

I'll ask the final party to see if members can wrap it up in 15 minutes. You can share your time.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be sharing my time with my colleague Mr. Holder.

Welcome to the witnesses today. There are several issues that have been stated here that I quite fundamentally disagree with, not necessarily from your answers but from the questioners. I have a couple of areas that I want to try and drill down a little deeper into.

You made a comment, Mr. Grégoire, that foreign direct investment somehow led to this assassination in September of 2006. The translation, at least, said this was apparently by the government. Do you have proof that it was by the government? I mean, anyone can make an allegation. Either you have proof or you don't have proof. So did the government in 2006 assassinate the person you were talking about, or is it simply an allegation?

[Jamie Kneen]

It is in the report. It was the Colombian army who produced his body, and they, in that public statement, took responsibility for his death. Now, that was not investigated, and that's why we can't say with any certainty what actually happened. All we have are those statements to go on.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

But that's not what you said. You said he was apparently assassinated by the government. What you're saying is there's some discretion here that needs to be allowed. Either he was or he wasn't.

Perhaps it should be investigated--I don't know--but I don't know any of the circumstances.

[Étienne Roy-Grégoire]

I urge you to read in details the indicators and information available on this case on pages 32 and 33 of the report. You're right, the case has not gone before the courts. There has not been a satisfactory investigation and that's why we cannot say for sure that he was indeed assassinated by the army. I cannot prove that to you.

The fact that the investigation has not taken place is a problem in itself which was identified by numerous organizations. Canada and the UN in particular have recognized that impunity in Colombia is a problem. What is not being debated is the responsibility for the death of this person. The Colombian army has indicated that he is a guerillero who died on the battlefield.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Exactly. But we don't know, and I'm surprised that anyone without knowing would insinuate that somehow or another this was an assassination, because it may or may not have been. So that's my point.

I'd like to maybe ask the clerk to stop me at the seven- or eight-minute range, because I do want to leave my colleague some time here. We get all wrapped up in our own questions and never allow anyone else our time.

One of the questions I've asked to every group, whether they're neutral, for, or against the free trade agreement, is about the fact that we're already trading with Colombia, and we have been trading with Colombia for some time. How can putting rules to the trade agreement that's already there, how can putting clauses in this trade agreement that are beneficial to the environment and to labour—maybe there are groups who want to see these go further—how can that hurt Colombia, and how can that do anything but improve our trading relationship?

[Jamie Kneen]

I think Étienne has answered that, in a sense, as part of the presentation. As you say, there is the problem of how far those rules go and whether protecting the environment and labour will also protect the broader human rights that are at issue here. But—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I appreciate that. I'm just going to pursue this for a second—