International Trade Committee on April 22nd, 2010

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

According to the independent monitors, it certainly is, but I'll let the independent human rights organizations speak to that.

I want to talk about the business case. In many cases when we've signed bilateral agreements, our exports to those markets have actually gone down. Costa Rica is a notable example. We're talking constant dollars, because otherwise we're talking apples and oranges. Our exports before signing were $77 million in constant dollars; and now, eight years after ratification of Costa Rica, they're $73 million. So we signed this bilateral; there would have been similar comments made before the trade agreement that, “My goodness, there's going to be incredible prosperity for Canadian exports.” But our exports have gone down. In all of the five bilaterals that have been signed, including EFTA, we've actually seen a decrease of $832 million in Canadian exports to those markets since those agreements were signed in 2009.

Since the business case clearly isn't there, what are we doing wrong? What do we have to change? Even in the example of the Colombian market, if we put aside this idea of rewarding the regime when egregious human rights violations are a daily or weekly occurrence, what is the government actually doing for product promotion in Colombia?

[David Plunkett]

Your question is somewhat multi-pronged. I'll deal with part of it and then ask my colleagues to weigh in.

In terms of some of the other agreements that we have done, particularly most recently, I think it's important to keep in mind that the EFTA and the Peru deals, which are the two that have just come into effect, have not even been in effect a year yet. I think it's too early to make a judgment on their impact in terms of real numbers, because we haven't even got a full year's statistics yet.

In addition, you're looking at numbers during one of the most difficult economic periods of the last century. There can be all sorts of reasons for numbers to go in any direction.

In terms of Costa Rica, frankly, I don't know. Our job is to build an architecture to try to improve opportunities for Canadian business. We cannot force Canadian business to take advantage of what may or may not be there. So I can't make a judgment as to why Costa Rica is or isn't....

Let me speak to Carol, because she is closer to this particular deal. She can identify some of the specifics as to where we think this will be of benefit to us.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Just in the interests of time, the question was on what we are actually spending for product promotion in Colombia.

As I understand, then, there are no real discussions within DFAIT as to why, when we sign these bilaterals, our exports actually go down.

[David Plunkett]

That's not what I--

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

That's something that hopefully my Conservative partners around the table will be concerned with.

[David Plunkett]

That's actually not what I said. Plus, I would ask...and Alex can address the promotion issue separately.

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

Whenever we negotiate an FTA, we put together a package to be able to market the trade agreement, to be able to make sure that Canadian companies are informed and are activated. We're doing that right at the moment with the Peru free trade agreement, and we will do the same, of course, should the Colombian free trade agreement be approved.

You can't force companies to engage. I mean, there's--

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I'm sorry, but question was this: what is the budget for Canadian product promotion in Colombia?

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

Ah; product promotion.

I don't know if I have that on me right now, sir. I know that we have a budget of about $400,000 for the operation of the whole trade and general relations section of the embassy. Of course part of that will be devoted...but really, much of it comes out of headquarters. That's why I wouldn't necessarily have it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Could you provide it?

[Alexandra Bugailiskis]

I would be able to provide that to you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

That was only nine minutes. That was a pretty good start—with time out for other discussions.

We're moving now to Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our witnesses, and thank you.

I just have a short statement, because it needs to go on the record, Mr. Chair.

Part of the difficulty of listening to the allegations of human rights abuses from Mr. Julian is the difficulty that he had come to this committee at one point and made accusations of two separate incidents of indigenous peoples being massacred in the jungle, that it was government forces that did it. When we investigated those reports, it turned out that it was actually the FARC who had massacred those two families of people.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Mr. Chair, that points needs to be made: the testimony has to be in order--

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Do you have a point of order, Mr. Julian?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Well, the parliamentary secretary is—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

And you've never apologized, so it would be a good time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Keddy, Mr. Julian has a point of order.

Is this a point of order, Mr. Julian?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes.

Mr. Chair, I think you're trying to keep us on track, and this has clearly nothing to do with the presentation that was made.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Again, anytime Mr. Julian wants to apologize for deliberately misleading the committee on that, I'd be happy to accept it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, that's unparliamentary language. I'd ask him to withdraw.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

No, I will not withdraw. It's not unparliamentary, and you know better.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

It's unparliamentary.