Evidence of meeting #8 for International Trade in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jordan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Okay. Can I ask you, then, how much the European Union and the U.S. are spending?
4:15 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I have no idea.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
They have hundreds of millions of dollars in product promotion budgets. We're spending $12,000, if the agreement is ratified. Do we have any idea of how much they're spending?
4:15 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
On the trade side, I don't think we do. You can see references, maybe even human rights reports, saying that the United States may throw $1 billion at Jordan in a year, but that includes military and aid money. Our aid money to a country like Jordan is $6 million to $8 million a year.
We have a new program within the department to assist Canadian companies looking to invest and to develop their cooperation. That is a program, which used to rest in CIDA, that has now been moved over to our department. This is an opportunity, if companies want to pursue it, in Jordan.
We also work closely with the Canada-Arab Business Council, which has about 110 members drawn from across the country. They are quite interested in Jordan. They have been there, last year, and they're going to go again this year. That's good stuff.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Yes, thank you. I'll cut you off there, because I have more questions. Thank you.
For the environment side agreement and the labour side agreement, we are still waiting to hear from witnesses, although I'm sure we'll have a very fulsome series of witnesses for this committee. But some of the comments that have come back initially are that both are toothless.
If they're toothless, how would you react to that? What would you say, both for the environment agreement and the labour side agreement?
And who was consulted in Canada on both of those issues? You flagged some of the human rights and labour rights issues that exist, and certainly there are a broad number of reports available. But who has been consulted on those, and how would you defend them from the concerns among many people who know these businesses that they're toothless; that they're more designed for a cosmetic than for any real impact?
4:20 p.m.
Director, Bilateral and Regional Labour Affairs, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Thank you.
The first part of your question was about consultation. The usual availability for Canadians occurs when it's published in the Canada Gazette for comments before negotiations start. That's the process. Obviously, we always have our ongoing informal discussions with labour and employers in Canada--
4:20 p.m.
Director, Bilateral and Regional Labour Affairs, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
We have a formal process, advisory committees, at which ministers meet with employers and labour leaders to discuss labour issues broadly and in general, but basically--
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I'm sorry to interrupt, again because of time, but who is on the advisory committee, and were they specifically consulted around labour rights in relation to the Jordan agreement?
4:20 p.m.
Director, Bilateral and Regional Labour Affairs, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
On the Jordan agreement, no, there was no special session that took place for that. On the advisory committee, normally there are union leaders and employers who are members. We could give you the list later on. These are just to consult about broad labour issues in Canada.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Yes, we'd like both of those. This would be very helpful as we start this study.
I'm interested in human rights issues. Report after report has indicated some improvement in some key areas, but also some ongoing concerns. We saw this with another country, Colombia, where there was a lowering of human rights violations, and then, subsequent to--
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
Excuse me, Mr. Julian. You have one minute, so you may want to skip the editorializing if you want an answer.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
It's a preamble to a question, Mr. Chair.
What happened after we signed was that human rights violations went up. Now, you pointed to honour killings, and it is true that there have been some prosecutions over the last few months in Jordan, but how do we keep the Colombian phenomenon from inserting itself into Jordan, where there might be better behaviour, but where it may not be consistent and ongoing? Are you concerned about that? What measures are in place to protect human rights so that they actually move forward in Jordan, which is something we all hope for, I think, at all four corners of this table?
4:20 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
First of all, the commitment we have from the leadership of Jordan is encouraging on this particular subject and on human rights generally. We have ongoing dialogue through our embassy, our ambassador, and our political counsellor. They are active on these issues. Also, we have CIDA programs that are definitely focused on gender equality, empowerment, and judicial training. I think these are excellent things.
You probably have the annual state department report on human rights. There is a lot of--
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I'm sorry, but are the state department report and other reports something that you track and circulate within the department dealing with the negotiations?
4:25 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes, we're attuned to that. We're aware of that. Based on what we know and what we understand of the trends in human rights in Jordan, that did not seem to be a block to having this kind of agreement. In fact, we don't believe that adding a free trade agreement with Jordan will diminish the move towards a better situation on human rights in that country.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
What reports are circulated internally, aside from the state department reports? Do you have access to other reports, such as those from Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International?
4:25 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes, we do. Our department also does its own reporting every year.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
4:25 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
Acting Director General, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I believe it probably is. I'm not from the human rights division itself, but--
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Lee Richardson
That's a minute and a half over time, Mr. Julian, so we'll ask our witnesses to get back to you with that response.
Thank you for that, and thank you for the answers.
We're going to head over to this side, beginning with Mr. Holder.