Yes, I will. The written notes that the committee will get from me this afternoon are lengthier on this very point.
Our contention is not so much on the two states taking issue with each other if they think they've breached the agreement, and then taking that forward for resolution. Our contention on that point is the fact that an investor, a corporation or a person, a legal person, can itself bring a claim against the state for something it did by way of regulating environment, health, or labour. That is the problem.
We don't have that provision here domestically for our own companies. If the Province of Ontario or the Government of Canada passes an environmental regulation, our domestic companies could make submissions and say it's not a good idea; it's going to impact them and there might be unintended consequences. That's all fair enough. At the end of the day, the government weighs everything and says, “We think this measure is very necessary for environmental protection and we've weighed everything.” A Canadian company doesn't get to go to court and say, “My company has now been damaged by that environmental regulation, so you have to pay me money.”
But these trade agreements are putting in that right for the foreign investors to do that. That's starting to create what I call a regulatory chill problem, whereby governments have to think twice, not only in balancing all the interests, but if allegations are made that there are going to be these kinds of claims, do those claims have merit? Might they win? Will the government have to pay compensation?
Even though, as I say, I think the language goes some distance about that, they nevertheless still allow the claims to be brought. We saw that with Dow bringing a claim against Quebec's pesticide code, which was just resolved in recent months, and that was done explicitly because Ontario was thinking about doing a pesticide ban on cosmetic pesticides at the time.
I think it's a very real problem. As for addressing it, Australia and the United States don't have this provision between them. I don't think it's necessary. I think that allowing this kind of provision is going way beyond what's necessary in terms of looking at all of the other interests the government is trying to balance.