International Trade Committee on April 26th, 2012

[Ton Zuijdwijk]

That is why it says “For greater certainty”.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

I think we can go back now to....

Oh, I'm sorry. Ron.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Easter made some good points. I think everyone around the table agrees and is concerned about the human rights issue.

That is an issue, Mr. Hildebrand, that maybe you could clarify. With the agreements that are in place, there is follow-up. It's not just left alone,but there is ongoing review. The department doesn't just sign the agreement and let the process lie and the results unfold as they may.

[Marvin Hildebrand]

With respect to—?

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Labour agreements.

[Marvin Hildebrand]

Okay. Let me refer that to Pierre Bouchard.

[Pierre Bouchard, Director, Bilateral and Regional Labour Affairs, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

Thank you.

On your specific question on the follow-up in the agreement on labour cooperation, the side agreement, article 7.5 says: The Council shall review the operation and effectiveness of the Agreement, including the degree to which progress has been made in implementing the objectives of this Agreement, within five years after the date of entry into force of the Agreement.

Within the first year there's an obligation to have a ministerial council meeting to start the formal relationship, if you wish, and thereafter as necessary. Ministers would meet regularly, but then there's also an obligation to review the operation of the agreement.

As well, I would point out that with the implementation of the agreement, the way we ensure that the other side respects the obligation is through two main mechanisms. One, is cooperation.

Even before the agreement was in force, we had already committed or spent $1.2 million in technical assistance in Jordan, which was almost entirely directed at the issue of migrant workers. We work especially with the ILO's Better Work program in Jordan, which has indicators. The government is one of the first governments that has committed to having all manufacturing businesses in the textile sector in Jordan be part of the Better Work program. This is active monitoring done by the ILO, which we co-fund as well with the U.S. and the participation of the Jordanian government. There is some measurement there.

As well, there is the dispute settlement mechanism. If any Canadian organization believes Jordan is not in compliance with its obligations under the agreement, it can raise compliance issues about the government's respect for international labour rights and enforcement of its own laws.

This agreement is the most extensive and robust agreement that Jordan has signed with any country. This is not a criticism of the U.S. The U.S. agreement was signed in 2000 and doesn't include rights of non-discrimination or rights that would affect the particular situation of migrant workers. Our agreement does. Canadians would be able to use these procedures to ensure respect for labour rights.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much. That goes a long way to answering a lot of the concerns I think all of us have and that Mr. Easter brought forward.

We're going to move forward.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Can I ask another one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Very quickly.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Bouchard, following up on that, would the program you described as a monitoring agreement cover the qualified industrial zones?

[Pierre Bouchard]

Absolutely, both through the Better Work program and the other separate ILO projects that cover qualified industrial zones.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Very good. I think that gives us all a little more comfort.

I will put it to the committee now. Shall clause...?

Oh, Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I have one further question on that.

In terms of all this monitoring that you've outlined, that's all well and good, but is there anything in terms of enforcement? If you run into some situations similar to those that have been tabled with us in evidence before the committee, with all the new monitoring agreements and so on in this FTA, what can be done in the areas of enforcement to correct the situation when something is found? Or is that just clearly the responsibility of the Jordanian government?

[Pierre Bouchard]

Under the agreement, the Canadian government itself, if it has concerns about the enforcement of labour laws in Jordan, can initiate consultations with the Jordanian government that will force a process that can lead all the way to a ministerial consultation and review panel, and the imposition of penalties if there's no resolution of the matter. That's one way of doing it.

Canadians as well, if they have concerns, can use the same process. It basically prompts government to start this process.

So you have these two mechanisms that may help with enforcement.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

We're ready to proceed now. I will call the question on clauses 2 to 6. Shall they carry?

(Clauses 2 to 6 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 7—Purpose)

Before we go on to clauses 7 to 11, we have amendment NDP-1.

Would you like to speak to it?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have some comments. I also have a question for the departmental officials. Maybe I'll start with the question and then give my remarks to introduce the purpose of our amendment.

In clause 7, the purpose section of the act, it says:

The purpose of this Act is to implement the Agreement and the related agreements, the objectives of which, as elaborated more specifically through their provisions, are to (a) establish

Then it goes on.

Is the itemization of purposes in paragraphs (a) through (f) mirroring exactly the objectives that are in the agreement or the related agreements, or are these characterizations of the concepts that are in the agreements?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Please go ahead, Mr. Zuijdwijk.

[Ton Zuijdwijk]

In this bill, since the agreement as such did not have an articulated list of objectives, this provision is, in your words, a characterization.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chairman, I'll try to be brief.

The first amendment of four that the official opposition is proposing has to do with something that I hope all members around this committee can support. It amends clause 7 by replacing line 8 on page 3. That clause describes one of the objectives as:protect, enhance and enforce basic workers’ rights, strengthen cooperation on labour matters and build on the respective international commitments of Canada and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan on labour matters;

The amendment would, after “workers' rights”, particularize the right to collective bargaining.

One could argue that this is implicit in the phrase “protect, enhance and enforce basic workers’ rights”, because in my view, basic workers' rights would include freedom of association. So I don't view this as being inconsistent with the purposes as they're described.

Given the evidence we heard, while there may be some progress in Jordan on the extension of labour rights, I'm advised, and my review of the testimony has indicated, that there still are concerns about the ability of workers to choose a trade union of their choice, particularly in the qualified industrial zones. The testimony was quite clear that while, for the first time, those workers may be extended the right to form a trade union, they cannot choose a trade union. Their right to express unionization would be limited to one of the established trade unions as indicated by the state.

I hope I'm speaking for all of my colleagues from all sides of the House here that we agree that the right to collective bargaining should be a core principle that we all support. We have that principle established in our own country. By adding those words we can reflect the importance with which we hold the access to collective bargaining, as well as strengthen this clause by particularizing that. I think it's consistent with the evidence we heard.

I would ask that all members of the committee support this amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

We're talking about amendment NDP-1. Is there any other discussion on this?

Mr. Cannan.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Just for clarification, Mr. Bouchard, looking at the labour agreement, isn't freedom of association assumed within the labour agreement?

[Pierre Bouchard]

Yes, absolutely. It is one of the fundamental rights that's listed right at the beginning of the labour agreements.