International Trade Committee on Sept. 27th, 2012

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Cannan, for seven minutes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses.

Mr. Pomerleau, we just heard from Ambassador Corona, who's the third ambassador I've heard from while on this committee. I know you've testified to our committee numerous times. I'm not sure how many times—maybe you could let the committee know how many times you've been here and over how long a period.

I know the NDP started off the meeting, and they're against trade; they wonder what the urgency is for getting this agreement through. Could you enlighten the committee as to why time is of the essence?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Nothing was said on this side of the table that we're against trade. That's what Mr. Cannan just said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

That's fine. That's debate.

Go ahead, Mr. Cannan.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

We didn't say that, Mr. Chair.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Time is of the essence, Mr. Chair, and the indication from the opposition is, what's the hurry?

This has been in the works for a number of years, and maybe you can enlighten this committee about why it's so important for your industry to get this agreement implemented as soon as possible.

[Jacques Pomerleau]

As I mentioned, Canada was the number one supplier to Panama over the last 20 years, and now, because the Americans have concluded an agreement, we are losing ground and we're definitely losing market share.

Where it becomes important is that, as I also said, our negotiators were able to obtain a clause by which we would follow the Americans, but we cannot allow them to take too much of a step ahead of us; otherwise we are likely to be out of it. Our understanding is that the free trade agreement with the Americans will be implemented next month.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you. I understood that too from previous witnesses. They're getting closer day by day.

Ms. Moore, welcome back to the committee. I know you've testified before.

Could you enlighten the committee on who MiningWatch is, how you are funded, and who you represent?

[Jennifer Moore]

MiningWatch Canada is a public interest initiative that came together in 1999. We're composed of environmental, social justice, indigenous and union organizations from across the country. We came together to coordinate a public response to the impacts of the mining industry on communities, both in Canada and internationally, and to advocate for strong protection of water and strong environmental evaluation processes, and also to ensure that the rights of communities are respected.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Those are noble causes.

What operations in mining in Panama or around the world has your association supported?

[Jennifer Moore]

What mining operations in Panama and around the world have we supported? In what fashion? I don't understand.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Have you shown any support? I've read your website, and it's anti. It's anti, it's against everyone. I haven't seen anything there of support. Does anybody do anything properly? Are there any examples you can follow?

[Jennifer Moore]

The conditions for mining in many parts of the world right now have been seriously eroded by the implementation of mining code reforms over the last number of decades that do not make serious efforts to ensure protections for the environment, for water, and for community rights.

There are some examples in northern Canada, northern Quebec, the Northwest Territories and Newfoundland where we have seen at points in time significant advances in environmental evaluation in terms of independent environmental monitoring, for example in the Ekati mine in the Northwest Territories and in a decent impact benefit agreement in northern Quebec at the Raglan mine.

There have been a couple of examples of advances being made, and those have happened when strong regulations and effective use of institutions have been in place, as well as strong civil society organizations to make sure that happens. That participation is significant, yes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

In your opening comments you mentioned that the agreement will provide more stability, and you see the fact that it has the environmental and the labour side agreements and levels the playing field.....

Are there any free trade agreements that MiningWatch has supported to help provide jobs and hope and opportunities for people of developing countries such as Panama?

[Jennifer Moore]

The way the free trade agreements have been designed so far shore up protections for industry rather than for the collective rights of affected communities and workers, unfortunately, and unfortunately the labour and environmental side agreements do not provide binding measures or mechanisms to ensure that protections for workers and the environment and communities are significant. Unfortunately, that's the situation.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

There hasn't been any trade agreement that you've supported yet, then.

[Jennifer Moore]

Not that I am aware of, and I might highlight that some of our trade agreements have been implemented at times when there has been significant violence in which Canadian mining companies have been involved. Such was the case of Peru, where some 33 indigenous people and police officers were wounded during a violent confrontation, and the Canadian government remained silent on that.

There has been some shameful activity regarding how we've negotiated and implemented these agreements, unfortunately.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

On your website you state that there are no regulations or controls on their activities to prevent these companies from profiting from weak protection for the environment.

There are controls and regulations put in place in each country, and these are even stronger ones, so are you just saying you don't agree because they are not strong enough?

[Jennifer Moore]

These are stronger tools for companies to assert protection over their investments. The strongest tool they have is access to international arbitration tribunals. It costs, for both them and states, millions of dollars to have their disputes heard. Affected communities and public interest groups do not have access to that mechanism. There's been no creation of such mechanisms through these agreements. That's a significant problem and is a reason we have not supported them. We do advocate for those stronger controls as part of our work.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

We had a mining company as a witness at a previous meeting. They were actually in support of the agreement, because they're in support of preservation of the environment as well. Do you feel that the companies aren't concerned about the environment?

[Jennifer Moore]

I believe that you're referring to Inmet Mining. Unfortunately, there are a lot of contradictions in that company's statement. Specifically, that company has a very strong public relations campaign that uses the concept of corporate social responsibility, but its actions demonstrate that it has tried to undermine environmental protections in Panama. An example is the constitutional injunction it sought against the protection of the Donoso area within the Meso-American biological corridor .

It has also learned the language of free, prior, and informed consent, but unfortunately, the evidence we have seen does not show that it has taken the steps necessary to obtain that from the local indigenous communities that will be displaced by its large copper project.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Mr. Easter, you have seven minutes.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I might not use all of my seven minutes so that I can free up some time for others.

The first question is to Canada Pork International. There's no question that pork needs every opportunity these days. I don't know whether committee members know, but the biggest producer in Canada, Big Sky Farms in Saskatchewan, went under about three weeks ago. The second biggest producer in Canada is under creditor protection. The pork industry is in huge trouble, as I'm hearing from my pork producers as well.

Basically what you're saying, Jacques, is that this agreement is certainly to your satisfaction. I understand that. I know that we're the number one supplier in there, and yes, we're losing some market share, but at what point does the American agreement kick into place so that we will start to be displaced?