International Trade Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2014

[Debra Amrein-Boyes]

I couldn't say that, but the one thing I can say is that if there are increased imports into our market of European cheeses—that's the foodstuff that we're talking about in my case—it can only increase awareness of cheese. Increased awareness increases consumer interest, it increases purchases, and therefore increased interest in our product creates increased production.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

There will be more European cheese for our market.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move on to Mr. Holder. The floor is yours.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our guests. This has been the most compelling pair of stories that we've heard today. It's very personal. It's very human and I feel very honoured to listen to your testimony today, so thank you both.

My Cape Breton mom used to say if you ate today thank a farmer. I think she made that expression up and it really is true. So I have a lot of thanking to do because I certainly appreciate what you do.

Ms. Amrein-Boyes I heard your story, Scotland to Quebec to Saskatchewan and now here to beautiful British Columbia. I'm motivated when I hear that there's interest in your family to take on the farm because that's not always the story that you hear.

I'm little disappointed in both of you though, if I might be very bold. The reason is this. I would have thought with those amazing artisan cheeses and sausages we might have had a little sample. I'm getting bored of just black coffee. It would have been really nice, Mr. Chair, to have just sampled British Columbia's very best stuff.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

He's trying to get rid of that pound of cheese by today.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I will say though when I heard your stories, first, Ms. Amrein-Boyes, I hope you write a book. Not just the book that you wrote, which is very interesting about recipes and homemade cheeses, but your personal story too.

[Debra Amrein-Boyes]

Thank you.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Mr. Freybe, I think you could co-author it and actually write your own book as well.

In terms of your cheese production, are you restricted at all, Ms. Amrein-Boyes, by anything to do with supply management? I got a sense that you were out of that. How does that work?

[Debra Amrein-Boyes]

No. We're in full compliance with supply management in the sense that our farm is a licensed producer of milk. We created a second business on the farm, a limited company that processes milk. We have a very good arrangement.

When we wanted to do this, the first thing we did, after checking with our municipality to see if it was legal to have processing on farm, which it was, was to go to our milk marketing board and discuss how we could make it work. We have nothing but good things to say about the support we found there. As for how it works, we produce the milk on our farm, it's picked up by the licensed shipper of milk, and it's brought round to our creamery, where it's dropped off. Then we process it.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

That's interesting. I'm going to challenge you on one thing.

In the House of Commons, one of our colleagues on this committee, who's not with us today, is a Quebecker. He and I are going to have a little something in the House of Commons for Quebec artisan cheeses and Ontario wines. It's a beautiful mix.

There's a reason I say that. No disrespect to B.C. wines, but you did make the point about how tough it often is to do interprovincial business. But I think Canadian cheeses, be they going from British Columbia into Ontario and Quebec.... Or, if I might even be so bold, show them what real cheese is like and consider exporting to some of the markets that we're opening up as a result of our trade agreements. You might be surprised, because that Canada brand—that was discussed earlier when someone talked about the maple leaf—represents quality and a certain way of how we do our business. There's an ethical standard, almost, that goes with that maple leaf. I would actually challenge the local side and say, “That gets you so far, but you have no restriction on the cheese that you could export in CETA as a result of that.”

Mr. Freybe, I just want to get a question to you. You've given a very considered defence or support of free trade, with some caveats. I think I know, but I was going to ask you this at one point: are you bullish on the Trans-Pacific Partnership and Korea as well? How critical would that be for the work that maybe not you exactly do, but for the type of industry that you're involved in and that you represent? Why would that matter?

[Sven Freybe]

First, Mr. Holder, I think we both would like to invite you to our facilities to take a tour. About the transparency, come and take some products—

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Not more than $500 worth.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Sven Freybe]

We used to sell our products into Japan, Korea, and Taiwan through various trade channels in the U.S. and through Canadian partners. We've essentially pulled out of all three marketplaces, for different reasons, but here's what I believe the TPP in essence will do for us. Take a market such as Japan. Years back, we had a retail store in Kobe. It was destroyed in the earthquake and wasn't rebuilt. We sold our products there. My grandfather started selling products there. We find it a very fascinating marketplace for us. It's one of the few Asian marketplaces where, from a brand perspective, from trying to build and develop the Freybe brand throughout North America, we find great opportunity and potential.

What I am coming to, really, is that I believe—I obviously don't know the specifics—anything that can lessen duties for entering into those countries would be a massive benefit for us. We are at such a disadvantage right now in China and in those marketplaces that whatever we can do will be of benefit.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

What about trans-Canada marketing in terms of your business?

[Sven Freybe]

We do that as well. Now that the exchange rate is where it is, all of a sudden the south looks a lot more advantageous than the east. We're growing in the eastern Canadian marketplace.

The real challenge for our business, and I suspect perhaps for Debra as well, is logistics. Freight costs across the country are exorbitant. I can land product here from Germany and by rail cheaper than I can ship product to Toronto by freight truck. That's the challenge for this market.

Likewise, the competition in the Ontario marketplace, due to its size, is real, so our objective is how do we.... We're a larger size of business, but we share the platform in that we want to be unique in what we do. So we'll go after the east. We sell from coast to coast now, but for us it's about finding the right niche markets.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

That's interesting. My wife has some very small boutique businesses: the oldest flower shop in Canada; a chocolaterie for which she has to get the chocolates flash-frozen and sent from Calgary to London, Ontario; and a gift basket company. I share that with you because, with eight employees, there might be a similarity there. The cost of shipping from Calgary to London is bizarre. It would be cheaper for her to get it from Europe than it is from Calgary. That's part of this confusion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Very quickly as your time is pretty well up.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Ms. Amrein-Boyes, perhaps I could ask you a similar question to the one I asked Mr. Freybe. Could I encourage you to consider shipping and marketing into Ontario and Quebec, into eastern Canada?

[Debra Amrein-Boyes]

Absolutely. Actually I was inducted into a French cheese-making guild. I have compatriots, confrères, everywhere. One in Toronto wants to have our cheese. We're still provincially licensed though, because we're small and we haven't produced enough to actually provide that market, but we would love to do that.

One thing you might like to know is that this fellow in Toronto actually chose three of our cheeses to take to Washington, D.C. for a Canadian reception there. President Obama has had three of our handmade cheeses from Agassiz.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

And this committee has not, Mr. Chair, for the record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Yes, I know, but he's not bitter.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Mr. Chair, can I ask you, though, when these two guests of ours write their books that we have a chance to buy them?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

There we go. Perfect.

[Debra Amrein-Boyes]

At a discount?