Evidence of meeting #20 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tractors.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
We didn't look at that.
We looked at the full analysis based on the net gain of Canada, and we're looking at the negative side to see if there is a net gain. There are plenty of people who look at the positives—there's a fellow right next to me here—but we looked at the overall agreement and the implications for our members and for Canadian municipalities, and the effects on public services.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
I must express some surprise at that.
Having said that, I want to tell you a little story. My father was from New Brunswick, and when he came to Upper Canada he was a member of a large union. When the union negotiated, they did not consult with their members; they took a leadership role, which they're certainly entitled to do. When the deal was ultimately done, they gave it to their membership, including my dad, to vote on, and they did whatever they did with that.
You made a comment in your testimony, which was interesting. I'm trying to get a sense of how it works with CUPE. We had Mr. Blair Redlin speak to us when he was in Vancouver, and I thought he gave very interesting testimony.
You mentioned that your membership voted against this deal. Explain to me briefly how that works. Who voted against it?
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Sure.
They voted against—
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
You get 627,000 people in the room. I'm not trying to be silly, but how does that work?
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
We have thousands of people in the room at the national convention. They're elected delegates from their locals who come to the national convention.
It was a near unanimous vote against a resolution, and the resolutions come from the locals themselves.
Conservative
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Sure.
The most recent one was our previous resolution, and I believe it was in October. It was a vote against some of the provisions in CETA.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
How was that resolution worded? I'm trying to get a sense of it.
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I can certainly get that wording for you. I don't have it in front of me.
Conservative
Conservative
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
No, it was a vote of the membership by hands.
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Yes.
It's by voting cards. That is the convention that our membership is voted on.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Interesting.
We all know conventions where they do that by a show of hands sometimes. Is that typical? For example, when a union does a strike vote....
Forgive me, but when I was a young lad and I worked in a grocery store, I think I belonged to a union then, but I wasn't involved in these sorts of things.
At a local level, is that typically a secret ballot when they vote on a negotiated contract?
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I think it depends on the local, but if my memory serves me correctly, at CUPE it is a secret ballot for votes on collective bargaining.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Your members actually write down whether they support it or not, and then put it in a—
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
For collective bargaining, yes.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
When you do that negotiating on behalf of your members, how does that work? You decide you want to get a certain percentage based on something over last year, and you have other benefits and things that you're looking to include.
Do you ever go behind closed doors with management?
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
The provisions within the agreement that are put on the table come from engagement with the membership and so forth.
There are certainly situations where negotiations happen behind closed doors, if that's the language you like to use, but they certainly don't get voted on behind closed doors, and they certainly don't get finalized behind closed doors. The agreement gets presented to the membership, and they have the opportunity to read it.
Senior Researcher Officer, Research, Canadian Union of Public Employees
It's not like free trade agreements that basically get signed behind closed doors, or have limited aspects....
There's also a situation where the interests of the members are represented from the beginning. There's a consultation process before that negotiation happens. Similar to the EU, the EU has a trade mandate that's put forward. In fact, there's been alternative trade mandates before, through consultations with civil society, so that's a process—