Evidence of meeting #21 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Ms. Hillman, we know that American legislators can have access to the TPP text. The European Union will also soon publish the chapter on investments.
How do you think the government can justify its secretive and non-transparent approach?
12:15 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The U.S. system and their way of consulting are different from ours. In the Canadian system, as we know, there is this process of consulting and discussing with this committee; then there is the treaties and Parliament process that we have. That's the mechanism by which the government consults with members of Parliament in relation to trade agreements. The U.S. process, as I understand it, is slightly different. I think there are situations in which certain members of Congress have limited access to negotiation text in relation to their constitutional authority. Our constitution is structured differently. My understanding—and I'm not an expert in this regard—is that it flows from the manner in which their constitution is derived.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Normally, Americans have to submit any agreements to the Congress for approval. I trust you as a negotiator on a personal level. If I saw that your mandate was to protect something important to me like supply management and if I saw that Canada was already benefiting from this—I don't know where the negotiations currently are—I may be in favour of this agreement.
That being said, I cannot endorse the agreement without reading it. I understand that those who would like to have access to the text need to sign a confidentiality agreement. That's probably how things are done in Europe, the U.S. or other countries.
12:15 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We have mechanisms in place in Canada.
Our system works in a different way. We have a policy for tabling treaties in Parliament. Once all of Parliament has access to the text, members can debate it. That's when the discussion can be held.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Ms. Hillman, could you tell us about studies that have been carried out on the TPP's costs and benefits? I am referring to the study mentioned by Minister Fast at a meeting in 2013. He said there was a report.
Could you tell us about that report and its conclusions?
12:20 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, I can talk about that.
In the TPP it's been a bit of an iterative process for a few reasons: one, when we joined; and two, it's not a bilateral negotiation. Unlike the Canada-Japan FTA, for example, where a study was done before we joined that assessed a number of things, the TPP operates somewhat differently. Rather, the TPP represents or includes a variety of markets and countries that have been identified as priorities by our department and the minister through the trade policy agenda. Those priorities were based on consultations with Canadians, on assessments of market access barriers that exist in those regions and countries, on what we were looking for in improvements.
So there was an assessment through the global commerce strategy and its successors to identify core markets of interest for Canadian businesses. In addition, as the TPP has evolved, we have, as I said, a bit of an iterative process in assessing where it's at and the benefits as it progresses.
We have considered the opportunities that will arise from deepening our relationships with FTA partners, the U.S., Mexico, Chile, Peru, and others.
We have assessed the benefits of some of these new emerging markets, and our chance to gain new access into some of these areas, based on the high tariffs they had, based on some of the non-tariff barriers and regulatory or competitiveness challenges that we have with those countries.
All of the partners are listed as priority partners in our priority markets assessment under the global markets action plan. That is also the other area in which we have done the assessment.
I guess the answer that I can give you is. This assessment is coming at the TPP from a variety of different angles. It's an assessment that is ongoing as the negotiations are ongoing. As I mentioned, Mexico and Canada joined, and then Japan joined. It is a fairly organic process that we have in the TPP.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much.
Mr. O'Toole will be our final questioner, then we'll move into business.
Go ahead.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, Ms. Hillman. I think it was very informative. I appreciate the flow of questions from all sides in here.
I started out talking about that email campaign, saying there's no justification for negotiating as part of the TPP. I certainly think you've shown clearly why there's such a justification.
Your comments on transparency, and in fact some of the unique stakeholder engagement that's almost cutting edge with the TPP, sort of dispel the myth of this secretive cabal that the email campaign... I do note to my friends three of the four Canadian MPs on this MPs for TPP transparency campaign are Ms. Liu, Mr. Morin, and Mr. Davies. I hope they've taken this session and your responses to show that there's quite a degree of transparency and the appropriate balance of confidentiality, and why that exists.
My final question relates to the stakeholder engagement you talked about. You mentioned 79 submissions on the TPP from the outset through DFATD. Fifteen stakeholders attended the Singapore round, which I found very informative. The unique ability for them to talk to other negotiators from other countries, so actually really profound engagement of stakeholders....
Can you talk about some of the civil society organizations? I'm assuming there were some in the 79 written submissions. Have any labour or civil society organizations attended any of the rounds in your experience?
12:25 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes. Maybe I'll wait a moment before responding on civil society quickly while Nadia checks it to confirm. I know we have but I just want to make sure I get the facts correct.
I mentioned earlier that we have reporting mechanisms where we provide a webinar to hundreds of interested Canadians. One of those sessions is to civil society: academia, NGOs, whoever is expressing an interest. We have had that regularly with a broad variety of different kinds of groups interested. Without naming names, which I might get wrong, we've had health advocates, for example. We've had a fair bit of interest in the intellectual property area. We've had regional interests. Different regions of our country are particularly focused on Asia. Some think tanks and academics who are focused on particular relationships in Asia have been involved. There has been a variety of different kinds of academic civil society participants.
As well, travelling to some of our meetings we have had medical representatives who are interested in health advocacy, interested in IP issues, and pharmaceutical issues. Those are the main ones.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
You've held these webinars, which was an additional opportunity I guess in a fashion that would be similar to this where some of these groups, whether industry associations, employers, or some of the groups that may be civil society or other can participate in this enhanced level of discussion that a webinar would offer. Are there going to be any of those going forward as well?
12:25 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Absolutely. We have them on a regular basis. We schedule them when we have something new to say, to be honest. We schedule them when a certain period of time has gone by and we have something to report. It was after every round previously. Now that we have moved from formal rounds to technical meetings we do it when we have something to report. So, yes, absolutely we'll be having more.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
So even some MPs I guess could sign up and participate on the Web.
12:25 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Go to our website.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
Thank you very much. To both of you, I appreciate your time here today.
12:25 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
You're very welcome.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Excellent. Thank you very much.
Mr. Pacetti had one quick question, so I'll allow it.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
In your brief, Ms. Hillman, you state that as a modern high-quality agreement the TPP will become the leading mechanism for Asia-Pacific economic integration. What does that mean for China? We haven't spoken about China, so I would like to know what your opinion is.
12:25 p.m.
Canada's Chief Negotiator, Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
That comment is meant to reflect the fact that the TPP is going to be more rigorous than other mechanisms that are under discussion in the region that include a broader membership including China, the RCEP and others, which are very important initiatives. I don't mean to suggest otherwise, but they are a little softer is a good way to put it.
I think that China has made some comments in relation to the TPP, which you can look for, that suggest they think it's an interesting initiative. They have asked some questions of some members about what's going on. They seem to be wanting to be kept abreast of how it's developing. I would hope that China, like any country in the Asia-Pacific region that's able to sign on to this high-quality agreement that we're trying to create, will be very interested to do so. I think that we would welcome any country that's willing to be part of what we're all hoping will become, and what I think will become, a growing common understanding of the platform for trade rules that we're trying to establish.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON
Mr. Chair, I recognize we have business to do but seeing the clock is only at the half hour, it's not quite at a quarter to, I'm sure my colleagues may have some other inquiries. Our guests quite frankly have been very illuminating and very helpful.