International Trade Committee on March 23rd, 2015

[Jared Walker]

I would say that B corps is a global movement. There are 1,220 B corps, varying from small shops of one or two people to large multinational corporations. One of the largest B corps in the world is the Business Development Bank of Canada, so it's a really broad spread movement.

If you asked those individual entrepreneurs, you'd probably get a better answer than I would be able to give you.

More generally than not it's more of an economies of scale sort of thing. The vast majority of B corps are just not positioned to penetrate those markets because they're not large enough, but the upper tier probably would.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

In your quest to go international, would you guide it through Export Development Canada or the trade commissioner's procedure for evaluating whether you are export ready? There is a program that serves as a self-guided tutorial and from that you determine whether you're export ready or not.

[Jared Walker]

I think that would be a question more for the individual enterprises. B Lab is a body that manages the certification and then liaises with governments or with specific jurisdictions around passing the legislation. While a B corp might be interested in penetrating the market, what we do specifically is work with them in order to get more traction for the movement and for impact-driven businesses.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

In that regard, how do you act as the facilitator for your clients?

[Jared Walker]

On the small end of things—and this is where the B corp/MaRS line gets a little fuzzy here in Canada—we would work with a company like Lucky Iron Fish, which does work in the Asian market. It's a small iron ingot shaped like a fish. When you put it in the pot during your meals the iron leaches into the food, and that can combat iron deficiency. We would work with them in terms of everything from pitch preparation to trying to connect them with investment, but largely that investment would be western based.

For the most part we are still trying to get people to buy in here at home. It's been very successful in the U.S. It's been successful in the U.K. It's been successful without much legislative help here in Canada, but we're trying to take that to the next step and get it right before we move out into other markets.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

In making those claims with respect to food products, how do you find the regulatory agencies outside of Canada, in terms of how much iron is leached and when you reach a level of toxicity?

[Jared Walker]

Gavin, who is the founder of Lucky Iron Fish and a friend, has worked very closely with the WHO and with the relevant administrations in the United States and Canada for that sort of thing. I know the sourcing of the iron is very important, because they source all of their iron locally, but then it must be put through the ringer—locally in Cambodia or in the Asia-Pacific region.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Have you found that Canadian food standards are generally better than those internationally?

[Jared Walker]

Yes, generally if they can sell it here, then we'll be all right elsewhere in the world.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Ms. Ramji, let me come back to this question of how do you find Canadian standards? Are you export ready? Have you been through that program?

[Aliya Ramji]

I'm not sure that we've been through the export ready program the trade commissioner has put on, but I know the standards we have for privacy and health care law are very high in Canada. Once we've met those, it's much easier to meet standards in other jurisdictions.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

What about international property protection? Have you encountered any of those issues?

[Aliya Ramji]

Both here and in the U.S., and we're facing those abroad. We find that as long as you're on a sound platform in North America, it's easier to protect your property.

[The Chair, Conservative, Randy Hoback]

I'm going to have to stop you there, Mr. Leung.

We'll move to Ms. Freeland.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start with Mr. Walker. Thank you very much for being here. I'm a big believer in impact investing in the B corp movement and I'm delighted to have you speak to all of us. If you could pass on my best wishes, and I think those of the committee, to Mr. Emery, who I know can't be here because there's been a death in his community.

I would like you to talk a bit more about B corp legislation. You've said that the B corp movement is doing well in Canada already without that legislation. What difference does legislation make? Why is that something we should care about?

[Jared Walker]

The most obvious point is that it's a multi-pronged approach. The way B corp works right now is that there's a certified B corp, which is basically a stamp you can put on your company when you have cleared all of the hurdles saying that your company is focused on people, on the planet, and on profits simultaneously. You make a small change in your articles of incorporation so that's reflected.

The B corp legislation takes that a step further, and many jurisdictions have built that into procurement and into other things in a way that allows government to be supportive of good business and of businesses that are specifically targeting specific issues. For example, in some states if you're looking at a construction contract for the state, then you would give preference to a B corp when the two bids are similar. That way you know, for example, in your construction project that not only will you be getting good quality and an affordable service, but you will also perhaps be helping people with previous job difficulties, or a portion of the profit will be reinvested into the community, or something like that.

It's a way for you to double tap, for you to get a bang out of your buck by also hitting one of the priorities of government by helping people within your constituency or within the country more broadly.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Walker, I'd like to follow up on one fact you mentioned in your presentation. You said something about 17% of consumers not trusting manufacturers.

Can you elaborate on that. Where does that come from?

[Jared Walker]

IBM annually does a consumer study in the U.S. Basically the gist of it is.... I think most everyone who purchases anything from milk all the way up the chain understands that at this point we have anywhere from 12% to 20% growth in the market in terms of stuff from organic, to non-GMO, to fair trade. However, people can't differentiate between things. People are over-saturated with this idea and by companies who say they do good, but in fact do something very different, as people discover when they turn on the news.

So B corp is a way for someone to know definitively that a company makes an impact on the environment, makes a positive impact with people, treats their workers well, etc., and that this is something you can take to the bank, as opposed to nebulous claims that we're a family company, but which perhaps has adverse effects in the community.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Do I still have time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Randy Hoback]

Yes, you have a minute left.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Ms. Ramji, thank you very much. I'll talk fast, and I'll ask you to answer quickly too if you can.

I appreciated very much your specific recommendation about expanding the Dose of Valley program. Are there specific cities in India, China, Europe, or Brazil you think we should focus on?

[Aliya Ramji]

I would probably focus on the major cities first in those particular jurisdictions, anywhere where there are big innovation areas, and anywhere there are people to meet. For example, in Germany it would probably be Berlin. In France, Paris. In the U.K., London. And, of course, in any of the big cities in India—Chennai, Mumbai, Delhi—anywhere where you can bring together large groups of people.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Super quickly, last question.

Jim Balsillie has complained in public and to me that a problem with the Canadian start-up universe is that as soon as great companies like yours get founded in Canada and show success and start to scale up, they get bought up by the Googles and the Facebooks of the world, and that we don't really create Canadian digital champions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Randy Hoback]

We're going to have to finish.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Is that going to happen to you guys, and how can we stop it from happening?