International Trade Committee on May 4th, 2015

[Philip Turi]

We keep a close eye on the progress. We have surveys that all the participants fill out and submit. I would say we haven't received a single negative survey from people taking the workshop.

I think that initially we were probably speaking to the converted in terms of who was attending the workshops. I think now after 15 of them they are fairly good productions. We're getting out into smaller communities, so outside of the GTA, for example, and outside of downtown Montreal, and into communities where these organizations, BDC, EDC, and TCS, don't necessarily have a physical footprint, and the feedback has been positive. It's obviously resonating. Companies are walking away with a clear understanding of who does what, and that's the objective.

Obviously we'd like to reach more companies, but with the technology now, we're recording the sessions. They're available online. We just need to tell companies where to go to actually watch them.

I would say the series is going well. It's going to be too bad if we don't continue this series after the election, because I think we've really done a good job of organizing the key government agencies so companies can understand who to turn to, and that's obviously something we're going to have to look at in the future, because I think we've built some really good momentum.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

For most of the participants that are coming to some of these sessions, do you feel they have had some dealings with a government agency such as the trade commissioner service, EDC, BDC, CCC, and so on?

[Philip Turi]

I would say that some are existing clients, but they're not necessarily clients of each of the organizations. What you're seeing is clients of the TCS, for example, coming out and meeting folks from EDC and from BDC. We're doing that by raising awareness through our prospects lists. CME has a prospects list. We all have prospects lists.

All of these prospects are companies that we're either looking at for various reasons. But basically by joining efforts, if they're an existing client of TCS, we're starting to see pickup and they're becoming clients of either EDC, BDC, or even CCC. That was one of the objectives behind how we marketed the series to Canadian companies.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I think there's been roughly, give or take, about 15 sessions so far, if I'm not mistaken. What would you like to see done differently with regard to the Go Global initiative? In particular, are there areas of improvement that you would like to see that may be missing?

[Philip Turi]

It could always be improved, but we've changed it quite dramatically since the first time we did the event. I think now we have a fairly good format. If you're going to do this event in smaller communities where these organizations don't necessarily have a footprint, the challenge is getting people to attend. Going forward, I definitely have some positive ideas and I'd like to see those implemented after the election.

[The Chair, Conservative, Randy Hoback]

Mr. Gill, that's your time.

We'll move on to Ms. Freeland, please.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to start with Ms. Pohlmann.

I was interested both in the data you assembled and in your comment about the need for data. What could the Government of Canada do to collect better data and how would that be useful?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

It's been one of the limitations of understanding what the export markets look like for Canadian firms. As I mentioned, the exporter register database, where most of the data that's being analyzed is coming from, does have its limitations. If you export less than $30,000 in a year, you're not included. According to our data there are quite a number of others that are at least experimenting and trying to get into other markets that way.

Another area that I know we've talked about before is that it doesn't always capture the way business is moving today. There are a lot of small businesses—and I've spoken to them myself—in Canada that have four, five, or six employees and who do all their design and marketing and research here in Canada, but manufacture their products in another country and then have them exported from that other country to other countries around the world. I don't believe they're captured in any way in the export data that exists and there's a lot more of that happening. Or they're part of a value chain, so they're not directly involved in exporting, but they are critical to the export market because their particular component is part of the bigger machinery that is being exported.

I feel we're very limited in terms of the data that we do have and understanding what is happening in the marketplace out there in Canada. I often feel it's under-representing the activity that's occurring. I think we need to do a better job of capturing what's happening in the marketplace.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I see Ms. Nott and Mr. Turi nodding violently as you're speaking and I saw that when you made your presentation.

Do either of you have anything to add? Any kind of specific recommendation you could make on how the government could collect data better would be useful to us because we can put it in our report.

[Joy Nott]

My comment would be simply.... As you can tell, I wholeheartedly agree with everything that Corinne just said. In answer to your question of what specifically you could do, for the types of transactions where it's the Canadian that's doing the designing, but the manufacturing is happening some place else, then follow the money. There are income tax returns that are being filed. One branch of the Government of Canada has data on what their overall global income is because that money comes home. Follow the money and from following that money you should be able to find a way—I'm not a statistician—to come up with how you can then put some boundaries around what you're trying to quantify.

I agree with Corinne. What's happening is very large and for SMEs usually that is their first true footprint into exporting. Nothing physically leaves Canada, but they're still exporting.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Ms. Nott, you may be a statistician, but I think you are a logistician, which I thought was very impressive.

Mr. Turi, do you have anything to add to that?

[Philip Turi]

Not really on the capture side. I was going to just echo that and also echo the comments of the CFIB in the sense that I have a whole host of companies, particularly in the automotive and the aerospace industries, that sell literally to one customer, and they are large OEMs that have a presence here in Canada. That data isn't reflected in the export numbers. They're selling locally. They sell to one customer and they sell quite a bit to one customer, so it would be, again, capturing it through the CRA as a mechanism to track that data.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Those answers are really fascinating, because the other area I wanted to ask you about is global value chains, global supply chains, and how we're doing at fitting in.

There's an interesting new report, which I'm sure you've seen, from the Institute for Research on Public Policy by Ari Van Assche, specifically about Canadian companies in global value chains. The argument made in this article is that we are not doing a good enough job promoting the kinds of exports that fit into the global value chains and that we need, when we think about export policy, to really understand that it's not only about us making stuff here and sending it somewhere else, but also about being embedded in global supply chains.

My question, to whoever is passionate about this, is this. Do you agree, and what can we do about it?

[Joy Nott]

I'll take that one. I know, that being said, that all three of us are passionate about this. I'm confident we've all spoken about this.

I think what needs to be done, in answer to your specific question, and if you look at my written remarks, which I didn't get the chance to read all the way through.... In many ways a lot of our programs specifically highlight export. I think we need to start changing our vernacular and start talking about supply chains, which include both imports and exports. That's the global game of the 21st century.

[The Chair, Conservative, Randy Hoback]

Excellent.

We'll move on to Mr. Cannan.

You have seven minutes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, ladies and gent, for being here. It's always a pleasure.

I just wanted to pick up on my colleague Mr. Gill's comments.

Joy, in your opening comments you mentioned that we need more awareness and better marketing. I just want to clarify. Do you think the Government of Canada should be investing more money in the advertising and marketing of the programs and services available?

[Joy Nott]

Honestly, that's a bit of a loaded question.

Do I think they should be investing more? I don't really have an opinion on that. Do I think that at least some money that's already being spent needs to be diverted towards this? Yes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

If you were in charge of the marketing program, how would you see that it could be more effective in reaching your members?

The same goes for Ms. Pohlmann of the CFIB. How do you feel you...?

Both of you can answer that, because you both have members, you're saying, who aren't aware of the program. How can we more effectively reach members?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

Again, I think it's by working through organizations like ours. I would suggest that we, ourselves, could do a better job, but I think it's also just getting into trade publications in sectors that are more prone to trade. Manufacturing is a big one, of course. Natural resources and even agriculture are big in trade, and it's important to make sure they understand that these types of services exist.

It's also the messaging that's important. It's the fact that they need to message that they are willing and able to help even the smallest companies. Even if there are three employees, or even if they do less than $100,000 a year in exports, they can be helped. I think that's the important piece that needs to be really pushed.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

There are Go Global workshops that Minister Fast and other ministers have been working on with SMEs across the country. I think on Friday there was the 2,000th participant, so he has had good uptake. Have you had any feedback from your members as far as Go Global is concerned? Are you aware of that and informing your members of these workshops?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

It's been a CME thing, so we haven't necessarily been as engaged on it.

We have certainly let our members know, where possible, that these types of workshops exist, but we have not been active. I don't know of any members who have actively been engaged in the actual Go Global workshops.

[Joy Nott]

I would echo that. I've talked about the Go Global workshops and I've had people ask me about the Go Global workshops. The one thing that I'll say is that there have been a few SMEs that I've literally tried to push. When you talk to them, you get the same answer, “I'm not big enough yet.”

One particular company that comes to mind has 65 employees and is just outside Kitchener-Waterloo. They're currently exporting to the States and have been for about 18 years. They're growing at a decent rate, not super fast but at a decent rate, yet if you talk to that owner, he'll tell you he's still not big enough to go global, which is—

[A voice]

It's a challenge.

[Joy Nott]

It's a challenge.

I think part of the messaging, just to finish my thought on what Corinne was talking about, even in some of the wins.... You tend to hear about the Bombardiers and that kind of stuff. Those big stories get all the media attention. I think we need to start championing the companies nobody has ever heard of and start talking about those little wins, no matter how small, so that people can identify.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I remember being a small business owner myself and you want to look at exporting, but where do you take that first step?